[00:00:07] Speaker A: This is Missy Martinez Stone, and you're listening to the centered podcast where we have unifying conversations on the divisive subject of abortion.
This is Missy Martina Stone, and you're listening to the centered podcast where we have uniform conversations on the divisive subject of abortion.
Hello and welcome to the Centered podcast. I'm your host, Missy Martina Stone, and today we are recording in person. I don't know if you can hear it. We are in person from the National Celebrate Life Weekend in Washington, DC. This weekend is a result of many national pro life organizations coming together to not only celebrate the anniversary of the reversal of Roe versus Wade, but continuing to collaborate and strategize for the protection of Preborn children and their mothers from abortion. One of the main drivers behind this event is the Pro Life Partners foundation, led by our guest today, Michael Kinney. Michael is a writer, producer, educator and lawyer and has advocated for Preborn children and their families for more than 40 years. He serves as the president of Prolife Partners foundation, leading the pro life movement and developing synergetic unity through alliance building financial support and best practices to optimize resources and strategic efforts. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule this weekend to be here, Missy.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: I'm delighted to be here. And the center for Client Safety is just doing such fantastic work. We're honored to be part of it.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: I love it. That's great. I think especially this weekend, it's the culmination of a lot of work from you and the Pro Life Partners foundation and what you guys have done to get organizations to partner together. And I think this event is the perfect backdrop for our conversation today because the theme of the podcast is bridge building is creating space for people to have conversations around complicated subjects that bring up a lot of pain and emotion. And that's not just between pro life and pro choice people, that can even happen within our own movement. But I love the mission of the pro Life Partners foundation because it's focused on building alliances, building bridges, so that as pro life advocates, we can be as effective as possible. So tell me how the idea of this organization came to be.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Well, so the idea of the organization came about through the three people who are the primary movers behind it.
They have all been involved in the pro life movement for decades, and they have been funding pro life work. They have started other pro life initiatives such as pregnancy resource centers, pro life medical centers. And about four years ago, they came to me and said, in our experience in the pro life world, we think that there is an opportunity for an entity that can be somewhat behind the scenes, just trying to support the whole movement to the degree that there are movement wide opportunities. And so we wanted to ensure that we are not seen as a corporate takeover kind of group, but rather a group that respects both, what I would call subsidiarity, working locally, but also solidarity, where to the extent we can work together, then let's do that. And this weekend is an example of the movement wide effort.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it because, like, you know, over the past five years, you know, we at center for Client Safety, we've honed our strategy, but unity and partnerships was one of our values from the very beginning, and probably right now, one of our number one values. Because, you know, early on, Jerrel Godse at Heartbeat International and Laura music at Psywick Advocates said, we need to work together and we need each other doing the thing that we do best. Like, we can't accomplish our goal of investigating, reporting, and shutting down abortion facilities if we don't have pregnancy centers. And sidewalk advocates as partners. And they can't help advocate for the safety of women in their community in a way that, you know, protects the clients without us. And when I look back at the victories that we've had so far, it was when every piece of the pro life community was in that area, doing the thing that they do best. But we were linked together, right. Working towards a common goal. So we all bring our peace, but it's connected to each other. Right. And we're doing this on a smaller community scale. But I see, like, pro Life Partners foundation doing that on, you know, the bigger scale. So what does that look like for you guys? Like, on the practical level?
[00:05:25] Speaker B: So it's a beautiful example and articulation, missy, of what we hope to do nationally. The way you have worked with Heartbeat International, sidewalk advocates for life, the synergies there enable an outcome that is much more impactful. So it's also interesting to me that both your organization and pro life partners began before the overturning of Roe, right. Which is so important because now, even more than before, we are really needed for this dynamism, because we now are literally being invited by the United States Supreme Court to try to persuade fellow Americans. And by working together, we're in a much better position. So, in answer to your question, on a national scale, our effort is to simply meet as many organizations as we can, understand what they're doing, and then thinking creatively about how we might either connect them or introduce, if they were not familiar, and then advance the whole movement with the goal of ending this horrible human rights violation.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. I mean, I love that you brought that up because when we started, we were officially incorporated in January of 2020 of all times. And based on the timeline that you said, you guys were kind of around the same, the same time, you know, we had no idea that the entire landscape was about to change drastically. And what we have seen is like, we have to go back to the drawing board and reinvent and look at our strategies because we're dealing with a completely different landscape now. And if we don't look at our mission and our, our strategies with a critical lens and go, did we, do we need to change? Do we need to change some things?
We're not going to be successful, you know, and that has been a big learning, you know, experience for us just to stay flexible, you know, not to hold on so tightly to our ideas because, like, we're just in a completely different, a different scenario than when we started. So post row, I mean, what are the things that you see are nationwide that groups can unify around, you know, in thinking about in this new landscape?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Yeah, excellent question. I just want to put an exclamation point on your insight about the importance of staying on mission but also not holding too tightly. And we would say for those who are believers that that's allowing the Holy Spirit to be involved in some of that.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: It's discernment.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: It's discernment. Yeah. So very, very wise. And all of our efforts will be more successful by doing that.
I think we're in a moment where we need as pro life organizations to be speaking the same language. Number one, I think that in particular, we all need to be consistently presenting the reality that the preborn child is entitled to exist, entitled to be protected from the moment a person comes into existence. And even though that may take time to enable our country to come to that place, now is the time for all of us to be always including that as part of, part of our message. If you're mission is as yours is, to help women who have been harmed by a center and so forth, I would encourage you to always try to say, you know, one day none of this will should be happening because we need to be protecting you and we need to protect the preborn child. They're entitled to be.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: So that's, number one, I think we, and we're, that's the biggest change now that Roe's overturned because the court has acknowledged that there is not a constitutional right to end the life of a pre born child.
Secondly, I think doing this kind of thing where such creative, innovative work such as you're doing, missy, interviewing, having podcasts, learning about the work of others and praying about it, fine tuning that relationship, building on a person to person and organization. Organization, that's huge, too. I think those two things alone will enable us to really advance this new season in the pro life movement.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: Yeah, the relationship piece.
We, you know, when we first started, like I said, cyborg advocates with some of our earliest, you know, believers, they were like, we see that need. Cause Lauren said, they're calling me when they see these crazy things and I don't know what to tell them. And so that was a really easy partnership. And over the years, Lauren has actually become one of my dearest friends.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Fantastic.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: And, you know, now we are constantly talking about how we can work together and how our organizations can continue to really use our different missions but towards the same goal. But it really has been fostered just through our friendship at this point, you know, and, you know, she's just become one of the most important people to me in the movement, so.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: Well. And it makes sense, right? Because in a sense, they're on site around the country and then they, in effect, are able to provide you with the information to enable you to take action.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: It makes perfect sense.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: As we're sitting here at this convention, people are coming up to your booth saying, are you nationwide? And you are really becoming nationwide because of this network that you're building. And so it's a beautiful thing to watch.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: Yeah, we're nationwide because Cybok advocates is nationwide and heartbeat international is nationwide. And when they get reports, they refer to us.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: And so it was really us building on that. And that relationship is what allowed us to grow.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: You know, but at the same time, we are resourcing them. We are empowering them. So it's symbiotic, is that the word? You know, that's right.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: It's almost like the assembly line, you know, you've got to have all these piece of working.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: And I think because, you know, in the past when people have attempted enforcement efforts, it always, I think there was a little bit of the pregnancy centers and Saiwak advocates feeling a little bit like you're getting our information for the sake of, like this is a pawn in your scheme. Whereas we go, no, this is for empowering the woman. This is a tool in your toolbox. Like it's about how we can all empower each other. And I just I am more convinced than ever that partnerships like our panel, the panel yesterday that I was on, that Lauren put into the schedule was, how do we obliterate the demand for abortion? By creating life centered partnerships. And it was myself, a member from Heartbeat, a member from ICU Mobile, and then Lauren. And the whole thing was about going into communities and partnering together. And when. When we do that, it's almost like our impact is just exponentially bigger than which we were all trying to do it on our own.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Well, it's really wise because you need a degree of separation as well, because the sidewalk advocates want to work very closely with the pregnancy resource centers, and they don't want to have any kind of conflict as to their. They're both focused on helping this woman change her mind and protect her child. So having you as a third party enables those two parties to simply focus on.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: To do their thing, and then they're.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Not involved in the conflict that you have to address.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And I tell Lauren all the time, I would be a terrible sidewalk advocate, and I know that about myself, and that's fine. That is fine. I just would be so bad at it. So I'm so glad that there are people like Lauren out there that are amazing on the sidewalk. You don't want me out there. But listen, if you need 400 pages of legal code dug through, I'm your girl. You know, I will do it.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Well, you know, it's. We to have a culture, we have to have all these different parts working.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And, yeah.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: So thank you for using your talents.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think. I think the mission of pro Life Partners foundation is just wise and really, it just allows us, like I said, to be mission focused and go, I'm going to do the thing I do really well. And if I need something outside of that, there's some.
Who else can do that? Because I don't want to be an expert in everything.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: No, no, no.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: No, no. And there are certain redundancies that make ultimately our efforts inefficient. So we want to be as efficient as we can.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: We don't have to be all things to all people. You know, we focus on what we can do, and we do it really well. And you outsource the stuff you're not good at, right?
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: So I know, like, pro life Partners foundation and what we do, like, it's focusing on unifying efforts within the movement. Within the pro life movement. But I want to shift the conversation outward, especially, you know, after the Dobbs decision, the temperature around the subject of abortion went up, and it's more explosive and divided as ever. And what I've personally seen is a growing number of people in the middle looking for somewhere that they can have authentic and empathetic conversations around, something that's really complicated to them. And how can we, as a pro life movement, unify together to meet, like these people where they are?
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great question. And in this challenge where we're trying to protect preborn children and help their mothers, the question you just posed is the one that both sides of this equation are trying to figure out. Unfortunately, the abortion side does a lot of market research. They have tremendous resources trying to determine how to use the language to persuade that movable middle. And that's where the confusion comes in, because, to be clear, that the other side is dishonest about what they're doing. And that's the nature of how it's been from the beginning.
So we're in a position where we have to be as smart as we can with the research, that we have to put ourselves in the place of the people who are in this movable middle. And many of them have been formed in an abortion world through curriculum, through the media, through their experience, through the law, through personal experience. And so our challenge is to really pay attention to the research through entities such as the Vitae foundation and the Dimitri Institute, and then work with experts to communicate as well as we can without. Without undermining the principles. You know, that's what at the outset, we talked about. We have to all be consistently talking about what is a very straightforward principle, that we all have the right to exist.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: So we were both at an event last night where Matt Walsh, I think, used very straightforward language to explain that dynamic. So I would suggest at this stage, we need to take presentations such as that, turn them into training workshops for public figures, and repeat that kind of strategy over and over and over. And I think in the end, hopefully we can kind of inspire the movable middle, help them get beyond the mental formation that they've had around this issue and see the truth.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things that I love about the center for client Safety is that our mission is something that any average person can get behind. You know, like, regardless of where you stand on abortion, most people can agree that, you know, predatory medical practitioners with barely any training and running unsanitary facility like should not be practicing. And I've had multiple people tell me that they don't agree with me on abortion, but they understand and they support what I do at the center for client safety. And I've been able to talk to them in a way that engages people on the subject of abortion that's accessible to them. And, like, there are some things that are so egregious that despite our differences, you know, we can come together. And one of those things is shutting down dangerous abortion facilities. And so, you know, when we are creating those narratives, it's sometimes we have to find something that gives them the on ramp.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Right. So, it might not be initially, you know, to throw down the gauntlet that, you know, we all deserve to exist, but it's like, how do we give them that. That on ramp to get there?
[00:18:45] Speaker B: Well, and also, missy, what you're doing by that work is you're creating credibility. So think of it this way. We still sometimes hear the abortion advocate side saying, you're only caring about preborn children. You don't care about. Why don't you start caring about women and caring about born children? So, your work with the center for Client Safety is specifically about caring for women.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: For the women.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: For the women.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: And it's hard to argue with that.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: It's very hard to argue because, you know, it's. And I'm very grateful because I want to be able to respond to that type of question by saying, this is what the center for client Safety does. That is specifically helping women who are. Find themselves in an abortion facility.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: So that you. That's.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: There's no more convincing response than that.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Earlier this morning, I interviewed Demetria Gilliam Williams, and she is the executive director of Life 107, which is human trafficking.
They work to eliminate human trafficking. And I told her, I said we were talking about how the abortion industry and the sex trafficking industry are so tied together and that a lot of times, the pimps and the traffickers take these girls to the abortion facilities, and they are not consenting to this procedure. And it's. It's in direct conflict with the. With the marketing of the. Of the abortion side that says, my body, my choice. Well, these women are consenting under coercion. Yeah. And that's. That it. That invalidates that consent. And it's like, that could be something that, again, regardless of where you stand on abortion, you know, if you say you're going to these facilities and they are forcing these women to have abortions that are trafficking victims, like, if they're willing to do that, it's gonna start planting those seeds of doubt. And how are these places being run? It's almost like we're sowing those seeds of distrust to break down that narrative that the abortion industry has done such a good job of building up that there's some, there are these women's healthcare, these, these, you know, I see the Planned Parenthood commercials, and they're all these, like, clean, bright, shiny facilities, and I'm like, that is not what they look like. That's not what they look like. But we have to figure out, like, how do we, how do we break that, that narrative?
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: You know.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a really, really important area. And the, it's very clear that even though our culture has been, I'll say, brainwashed about the nature of abortion, one of the areas in which this mass formation can be sort of, the veil can be pulled back is the very case that you talk about that you assume that these women have chosen this, but evidence shows a lot of them have either been pressured or coerced. So you've given, you know, the example of absolute coercion and criminal conduct with human trafficking. But it's also the case, missy, as you know, that a high percentage of women say they felt pressured to have the abortion. That's another form of coercion, whether it's from the father or from the parents.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Or, you know, even socioeconomic.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Socioeconomic conditions. That's right. So that is another way of kind of making the case and presenting the truth that this is not a choice. Even if you, even if we were to concede that somehow that was a legitimate choice, this is not a choice because they're being pressured or coerced. So your work helps to reveal that.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Right. Right. And I think, I think the movement, the pro life movement is becoming more and more aware of, like, how we find those, those inroads, you know, because I really do think that that's how we're gonna move the movable middle.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Yes, we know for sure.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: You know, like, how do we give.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Them a narrative that they can, they can, they are willing, and I think, pleased to endorse that because there many people who support abortion, I think, in some way believe that they're helping women.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Call that misplaced compassion.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: That's a great way. Yeah. Yeah, that's excellent. Yeah, we've got to, we've got to.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Correct that because most of them, like, because I had an interview with a catholic priest for his radio show, and he's so, I love talking to him and he's so kind and we always have great conversations and, but he tends to do the thing where he's like, how can anybody support something so barbaric? And I said, father Murtagh, like, let's keep the bad guys, the bad guys. Like, there are evil people that are running these abortion facilities. There are bad actors. I said, most of the people that support abortion are not bad people. They're just misinformed. And when we lump them all into this one category, we're not going to reach them because we've immediately villainized them instead of taking time to really understand.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Why they reach the conclusion. Some of them are scared. Some of them, like I said, I've had personal experience.
And so, like, I feel like as a movement, you know, I've been in full time pro life work for over a decade, which I know is not compared to everybody else as long.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: No, that's huge.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: You know, that long. But, you know, I really do see a lot of the organizations moving towards really trying to focus on being more empathetic and nuanced on these subjects. You know, if we want to, if we want to reach these people, I.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Think that is so important. And I also have had the privilege of being on Father Mateak's program, so precious.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: I love him so much. Big fan.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: But we're now in a world where there are nuances that we have got to address.
I think that there is a general understanding that abortion is a horrible thing because fortunately, live action and others have demonstrated the reality of what happened. So that's very good. But what you're speaking to is a very important nuance, kind of a new dimension. And I agree with you. I don't think we have addressed that as much as we need to.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: But it's starting. They were starting it.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah, we're starting it. And part of what we've been doing as a movement is kind of demonstrate that, no, we are helping women. We are helping children. But you're pointing to something even, I think, more subtle and one that we need to think about, which is those who have, let's say, voted for these proposals, they're doing so the post proposals have demonstrated because they think they're helping women. And the other side, the abortion industry, has lied about the care. Women would not receive so much fear into them, so, so much fear. And so we've got to break down the reality that this is not about miscarriage care. This is not about the life of the mother. This is about, the reality is it's about protecting both the preborn and the mother. And then I think, you know, hopefully those who, as you say, misplace compassion will realign their compassion for both, you know?
[00:26:24] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the questions. So when I. When I was at. I was at student rely for a number of years, and I would go and do the campaigns on campus and, you know, got protested all the time. But there was. There were moments where I had really impactful conversations, and a lot of times it just was me going, who, who decided that abortion was the thing? You know, that was, like, the key here. Like, who decided that was the most empowering thing?
You know, and. And just that question, they would just kind of be like, that's a great question. Yeah. It just enough to be like, when did we decide that was it? And who had the expertise to say, this is it, you know, and just saying, like, there are other ways, and why are those ways not as protected and fought for in the same way?
[00:27:19] Speaker B: So that's a great question. And I do think we should develop a whole strategy around who decided this.
Great.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: That's the next project. Yeah.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: Pro life Partners foundation.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah. No, no. And it's. Yeah. And I really do want to think about that and think about the researchers who. Because the part of the answer is not a pretty answer. No, it's not.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: It's people who wanted money.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: People who wanted money is one dimension. Another dimension are, unfortunately, the history of how Doctor Bernard Nathanson and Lawrence Lader went about their work. Fortunately, Doctor Nathanson had an epiphany, and Lawrence Lader never did. And they. Lawrence Lader in particular, was all about exploiting women. And it's a horrible reality.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: And if he's the one saying this is.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: This is the answer.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Because he had a different.
Different objective.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: And then there's research done in beautiful books written by Sue Ellen Browder. Subverted. Goes through that history. Very well. And then doctor Cary Bress. Those two are really doing beautiful work on pulling back the way in which the feminist movement was hijacked by the abortion movement.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: Yeah. This was not a result of feminist empowerment.
Yeah. It was people in the business that were benefiting off of the exploitation of women and the selling of abortion. Right.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: So I'm glad that this is being recorded, because that I will send that articulation to these experts. And we need to think about, you know, making that a message and then obviously showing the proof of it. But I would. I would recommend.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: Don't worry. I'll be your spokesperson. I got.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: I would recommend that you interview those two people if you don't know them, sue and Browder. And. And her book, subverted, where she explains exactly what happened? And then Doctor Carrie Gress is right here in the Washington, DC area because that's a very, very important piece that's got to, that's a pillar of all this abortion business that has got to be taken out.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: And so to get back to the, to bring this around, you as the president of the Pro Life Partners foundation, you hear this idea and you immediately go, this is something we need to elevate nationally. How do we bring organizations around and, you know, create, either create this resource or communicate it or any, take the, take the experts and go, hey, you guys use this information. I mean, it's a perfect example of how you are so uniquely positioned to have, when you realize these gaps or these needs and you know, how to build those bridges and disseminate.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Right?
[00:30:18] Speaker A: No, that's right.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: And, you know, I had the privilege of being part of creating the film unplanned. That was a very important resource because it presented the reality.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:29] Speaker B: And the other side understood that they fought it. They fought it, did not allow it to be shown. So it was worldwide.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: You know, those are big strategies, but, but there's a very straightforward messaging strategy around what you just described, missy, that would be so impactful, I think, on this movable middle. I think, I think it'd be, it's going to be hard for a while, but if we have people, particularly female spokespersons, saying, no, no, no, this is not what feminism is about.
And I've just given you two names of people who are quite expert at that and they receive a lot of pushback. You can trying to reverse, or I would say reveal the truth about feminism. And again, it's so difficult because any mature person would want to advance women for their full potential and everything they would want to do. But abortion is not in their interest for achieving their full potential.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Right. Right.
Yeah.
I'm actually talking to Leah Jacobson later today, and it's about being a holistic feminist. We're gonna die.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: That's great.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Head into this whole conversation. And I love what she says is that her tagline is teaching women that their bodies are not the problem.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Right?
[00:31:54] Speaker B: Yeah. If you send me your interview with Leah, I'd be happy to send it on to these two experts.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: And, yeah, because the root of abortion is telling a woman that your body is the problem and that in its nature is anti woman. Absolutely right.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: No, see, and honestly, that articulation is what those in the movable middle need to hear when they hear the other side saying, no, no, no, women need this. If you don't provide this. They. But we have to deconstruct that because the other, the abortion industry's message on this is simply not true.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Right.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: And then the additional resource I would suggest to you is there's a man named Alan Parker with the Justice Foundation.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: I know Alan. Yep.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: And he's doing a wonderful job, sort of a listening tour with women who are post abortive, who talk about their experience, who are trying to sort of like amuse a philosopher, telling younger women, please don't go down this path. And here's why.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: And that's a lot with coercion.
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: And the forced abortion.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: And yes. All these beautiful testimonies. And so that's another way to deconstruct this lie.
[00:33:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I love it. I love it. Because you are, you are really looking from the, from the big picture because I tend to be. I'm a very details, I'm on the ground. I want to get stuff down. But we, we need people that are up here looking at the movement and going, where are the gaps? Where is the needs?
What can we do better? How do we need to evolve? You know, how do we need to change with the time? So like we said before, like we are in a completely different.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Thanks be to God.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: It's good. It's good and bad. It's good in the sense that, wow, what an incredible victory overturning Roe versus Wade. But wow, did it change the battleground.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Before, the pro abortion side didn't have to be on the offense because they had this sort of security of, well, whatever we do, ultimately, it's a constitutional right.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: We're protected.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: You saw as soon as that was taken away, literally, the current administration weaponized every aspect of the government against life.
And that's not a pretty picture, but no, I'm so glad you're doing this with Leah. And I think that much good will come from that, and I hope so. And I think it's a combination. It's a both. And, you know, we need the center for your work with center for Client Safety, where you're into the details of helping people directly. And we need some of these other things, but neither one is more important.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: They both have to do it together. That's going back to the original point. Gotta do it together.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Otherwise, you know, people like me are just sort of talking big ideas and there's no value in that.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Right. That's why Kristen and I work together so well.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Because she's always big, big ideas. And I'd be like, all right. Got it. And then I go get it done.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: That's great. No, that's exactly how it should be.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: So what are there any other, like, what's next for pro Life Partners foundation? Like, what are the ideas that are brewing? What are the kind of things that you guys have going on?
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Thank you. It's a great question. So we're sort of in, we're still in the phase of kind of determining how this messaging campaign is going. And that was just launched last month. We created eleven videos that we have just given to the entire pro life movement to use in any way.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: And that's what a beautiful use of resources just to say, here you go, guys.
[00:35:30] Speaker B: Yeah, use it in any way you can. And so there'll be a period of time where we're evaluating that. We have a lot of entrepreneurial activity around that, where there's a pregnancy resource center that has created a highway sign that's being seen by half a million people a week, and then there are other centers that are using it as part of their own email systems and social media.
So we're trying to get a sense of how well that worked and whether or not we should be making more or what else we should do. Celebrate Life Weekend is a big undertaking.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a big project for you guys, but now that it's done, it's like, what?
[00:36:11] Speaker B: Yeah, so the planning for next year begins right after this concludes. But a suggestion that was made today was, you know, as March for Life, the organization goes to state by state marches. Maybe there's a way to have kind of a mini celebrate life event around that. Right. The dynamism that could be.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And for the people who can't travel to DC brings the experience that.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I like that idea.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: I like that idea a lot because we did regional conferences all the time, and it just, you know, it's easier for us to go there and, you know, see, you know, 100, 200 people and try to get them all right this way. Right.
[00:36:51] Speaker B: So if we could find a way to package that, that could be really good. And it'd be, we want to make sure that whatever we're doing in the summer is not undermining the march and January.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. Right.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: So this would be a way of showing direct partnership between the two potentially.
[00:37:07] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Like, again, how do we do our thing but do it in a multiplier way. Yeah. And in a way that, like, pushes everyone forward, you know, because we don't want to go around cutting out the knees from our other pro life people but it's like, how do we, how do we move forward in a way that it brings everybody, and by bringing.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: Everybody, I think we literally are building a culture of life, which is the ultimate goal. And the other side has had the advantage of controlling the curriculum in all the public schools. They're all from kindergarten on, are being fed a vision of the culture that is terribly false as it relates to the human person.
And so we have, and then we have the media industry, we have the pornography industry, these various industries that literally are like a cancer to culture. And so I think as a movement, we're now at a place where if we can start to build in the opposite direction, truth, beauty and goodness prevail.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I love it. Oh, it's so what? I have had so much fun having these conversations because I just feel like the angle of this podcast just evoke creative conversation in a way that we're not just talking about it from the straight, like we're pro life and we're doing these things, like how, how do we do this in a way that's focusing. It's just, it's, I've had the best talks. I just, I love it. I love it. I'm inspired, I'm excited. Like, you know, I've got so many ideas rolling around in my head now.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: You have a really, really wonderful talent, missy, for taking really complex issues and then finding ways to implement.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you had to summarize my life, that is what I do.
[00:38:55] Speaker B: No, no, that's a beautiful talent and it's a, it's, um, it's a rare talent and one that, you know, needs to be protected and nurtured and empowered.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: And then I need combination with that are, that have the good ideas.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:09] Speaker A: You know, because I'm not, I, I struggle. That's where I struggle. And that's okay.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: That's okay.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: That's okay. It's not, it's not an indictment of my value or my worth. Like, I know, but I know where my strength is. And so it's like being confident about who you are and what you bring to the table. And I know that I need the big picture people. I do great when I've hooked my train to somebody who is a big picture thinker.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: Both need each other. So it's, there's a wonderful expression by St. Francis de Sales who says, be who you are and be that. Well, and if we all do that.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: If we all do that, culture grows, but linked together.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: Linked together. Yeah. For common good, then we really got something and I'm so glad that we were able to involve kind of a rally at the Lincoln memorial because of all the leaders in our country's history, Lincoln was such a fine human being and then was able to proceed, in a way, through stories and narratives, as you're proposing, posing, which is what we do need to do. And then, you know, the book team of rivals, he literally brought people who were his rivals into his cabinet, and by the end, they all so admired. So there's what we're about and what you're doing in particular. It's the right place at the right time.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: And so thank you so much. Yeah. So we try to end every episode with something a little more lighthearted because we get, you know, we have intense conversations, but we are more than the work that we do. And so I love to take time and ask, like, what you do off the clock. So it can't be anything related to being a dad or a husband. It has to be a pure hobby. Like, what is something that you just do for fun?
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Wow. Well, thank you. And I'm glad you took that category off because that's a big partial, because.
[00:41:00] Speaker A: Everybody wants to say it, and I'm like, no, no, no.
[00:41:02] Speaker B: So that's understood. That's good.
[00:41:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: And then I would say that I find great satisfaction in reading and writing. It's very. And I'm very interested in, particularly reading about biographies about people who have lived inspiring lives. Not that they've had a perfect life, but they've strived to live their life in an inspiring way.
[00:41:28] Speaker A: What's your favorite biography so far? Well, you had to say, like, this is the best.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: Yeah. So I would say, I mean, it's very hard to pick a particular biography, but because they're in categories for me. So there are a number of books on Lincoln that I find quite compelling.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: I mean, I, my husband. So this is a little bit of a glimpse into my life after my husband and I started dating. He said, everybody can get flowers on. Anybody can get flowers on Valentine's Day, but he would give me flowers on Abraham Lincoln's birthday because Abraham Lincoln was such an important figure to me. I was obsessed with him, you know?
[00:42:03] Speaker B: So you understand.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: Oh, I understand.
I love Abraham. Abraham Lincoln. My family is actually descendants of the Todd family.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: Isn't that wild?
[00:42:11] Speaker B: That's really wild. Yeah.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: And so I've always just loved him. So there's a running joke and my family that Abraham Lincoln was, like, the first love of my life.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: For example, the movie Lincoln.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Oh, eleven years ago.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: Okay. So beautiful. I thought Daniel Day Lewis portrayed Lincoln so well.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was just an incredible figure. So was there a particular one, a.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: Particular biography of Lincoln? Well, there's one that just came out about two years ago and it's, I'm forgetting the author's name. I'm sorry. But it's. And there was light. Somebody's kind of let there be light. And there was light. And then, and then there's a subtitle to it, but it's magnificent. I imagine that you can get it as an audiobook as well, but. Fantastic. And then there are many other figures of that.
[00:43:03] Speaker A: I like. Dietrich Bonhoeffer's.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: Yes, I've read that too.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: I wrote a whole paper on it and.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Fantastic. Yeah, that's a great one. No, that's great. Those are the examples.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: So I find. And then what I very much enjoy writing and therefore, and to the extent that I can help kind of use these stories or figures, you know, we have a difficult topic we're dealing with with regard to abortion. And if we can use stories from inspiring figures or the principles they stood for, I believe it helps us connect.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. Yeah. See, I'm an avid reader, but I'm just usually reading, like, fiction because I just, I want to be lost in a world. No, I know not, you know, like classic, just Lord of the Rings. Like, I want to be lost in a fantastical world. And I mean, there's, there's a place for fiction in the sense that, like, they can challenge cultural things and they can bring up interesting conversations and. But, yeah, I, I am an avid reader. I read so much and I love it.
[00:44:05] Speaker B: No, that's great. It's such a very important thing to do. I would just suggest there's a book that your family might enjoy called the father's tale. And it's an amazing. I don't read fiction typically, but this is fiction by Michael O'Brien, who's one of Canada's greatest catholic writers, and it's put out by Ignatius Press. It's called the Father's Tale.
It's an amazing story.
[00:44:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I love, my husband's a storyteller, filmmaker, songwriter.
[00:44:39] Speaker B: Well, this storytelling, a late Father's day gift for him, maybe because he could go to Ignatius Press, publish it, and they created a two minute trailer for the book that is so cool that I think he would really appreciate. And it's a big, it's a long book, but it's.
[00:44:56] Speaker A: Oh, it's okay. I read very long books. I mean, remember the Bonhoeffer book, you.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: Know, is this thick, but I'd be interested. But beyond Lord of the Rings and a book like the father's Tale, I'm typically reading nonfiction.
[00:45:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I went through a phase where I was mostly reading nonfiction biographies. But now, given, you know, the work that I do and being a mom, like, I'm in a season of my life where I really do just, I need time where I'm just not thinking, really.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: No, no, no.
[00:45:24] Speaker B: For sure. No, no, no. That's very important.
[00:45:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So. All right. Well, thank you so much. I absolutely loved this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me and for everything that you've done to support pro life organizations and their work. So for more information about the Prolife Partners foundation, visit prolifepartnersfoundation.org dot. Are there any other places that they can find you?
[00:45:49] Speaker B: I would say they're also free to send an email to
[email protected] but beyond that, those are the right places.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: We have an amazing lineup of guests coming up, including Leah Jacobson, founder of the Guiding Star Project, and Jesse Sutherland, the federal policy director of Americans United for Life. And so much more. Episodes drop every other Friday and are now available for everyone to hear. So help us spread the word by rating and viewing us and sharing with your friends. For more information on the amazing work of the center for Client Safety, visit centerforclientsafety.org or visit us on socials at center for client safety. You can also find me on socials at Missymartinastone. See you next time.
