Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Missy-Martinez-Stone: This is Missy Martinez Stone, and you're listening to the centered podcast where we have unifying conversations on the divisive subject of abortion.
Hello and welcome to the Centered podcast. I am your host, Missy Martinez Stone, and today is going to be a little bit of a departure from our usual content.
We had an amazing conversation with John Gibson. He is a board member of the Center for Client Safety, but mostly well known for his international news that he made a few years ago when he came out as a pro life tech executive.
The webinar was called bold, brave and innovative, and we discussed why pro life advocates need to innovate and and reshape their strategies in a post row America.
The conversation was so inspiring. John had incredible insight as an innovator himself, so I wanted to make sure that we shared it with you all as well. So it's not quite on the topic of being centered, of finding common ground, but it was an amazing conversation, so I hope you enjoy it. This is the center for client safety's webinar. Bold, brave and innovative why pro life advocates must reshape their strategies in a post row America with guest John Gibson.
I'm Missy Martinez Stone, president and CEO of the Center for Client Safety, and our amazing guest tonight is John Gibson.
John formally served as the CEO, co founder and co owner of a highly successful video game developer and publisher, Tripwire Interactive. And following a tweet supporting Texas abortion law, John made international headlines as an openly pro life executive of a tech company, which you will hear more about tonight. Today, John is a dedicated philanthropist and activist known for his tireless efforts in helping the poor and needy around the world while advocating for life.
He also serves on the board of directors for the center for Client Safety and has really brought his business acumen and experience to helping us grow in our mission to shut down more dangerous abortion facilities.
So before we dive in, you got a little sneak peek earlier with your coffee cup. Before we dive in, John, you had a once in a lifetime experience last week. Can you share what you did?
[00:03:13] John Gibson: Yes, I can. Thank you so much, Missy. I appreciate the intro.
Thank you all very much for being here to hear me speak. And yeah, I had this amazing opportunity. My wife and I were able to go and attend a pro life Supreme Court trial in person, and I thought this group might like to hear a first hand account because you always hear about the results afterwards, but you don't really hear what goes into it happening. And this was the case of the state of Idaho versus the United States of America. This is the case of the Biden administration attempting to use federal law, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor act, or EMTLA, to force emergency room doctors to perform abortions that are illegal under Idaho law. EmTLA is designed to save lives by preventing people in life threatening medical emergencies from receiving stabilizing care because they don't have the right insurance or can't pay. Let me rephrase that. It's designed to save lives by allowing people to get that care if they're in a life threatening situation. If the Biden administration is trying to force the emergency room doctors in the state of Idaho to terminate the lives of the unborn, and not just for emergencies that threaten the life of the mother, but for situations that impact the quote unquote, health of the mother.
Much of the discussion and questions by the justices centered around the discussions of the health of the mother. One example a justice gave was that a woman could come into the emergency room and say, hey, I'm depressed and I don't want to be pregnant. And the Biden admin's view is that they could force the emergency room doctors to terminate the baby for her health because she's depressed. The debate was very fiery at times. In particular, the justices that lean more toward the pro abortion side were actually quite rude to the advocate for the pro life side.
They often cut off the advocate and hardly let them speak. The justices on the other side were actually quite respectable to the advocates for the Biden admin. So it was kind of interesting to see that dynamic in the discussions afterward with the lawyers that were present in the courtroom. Their belief was that there's a 65% to 75% chance the court will decide in favor of Idaho and the pro life position. So very excited about that.
This case is important far beyond just Idaho, because it's the Biden administration's blueprint for using EMTLA to circumvent abortion restrictions in 20 plus other states.
[00:05:38] Missy-Martinez-Stone: And to be clear, not only were you at the supreme Court, you were inside sitting in the courtroom, getting to listen, which is not typically accessible to a lot of us who go. And, you know, when we talk about going to the Supreme Court during these cases, we're usually referring to standing outside and holding signs and standing in solidarity, but you have to actually physically sit in this room and watch this case unfold. And as you're talking about it, it's reminding me of when Roe versus Wade was overturned, was passed, was made into law. In 1973, there was a companion case that went with it that didn't get as much attention. It was called Doe versus Bolton. And it was about this exact thing. It was, what is the health of the mother? Because everyone was always talking about this definition because under what the justice was making the point of, we could call all kinds of things health, whereas life is a much more restrictive definition.
And I think it's important to note that this case is not making light of really scary and difficult cases. My sister in law almost had a stroke during labor due to severe preeclampsia. There are times when serious health risks need to be treated and women should receive medical treatment. But it's important that hospitals and states where abortions are restricted don't start labeling cases as life threatening just so that they can do the abortion when that's.
[00:07:24] John Gibson: A, if you don't mind adding to that real quick. That's, that's actually one of the points that a justice made that sort of frustrated the Biden admins advocate because the justice made the point. Well, this, you know, the Biden admin said, these are all the reasons that we think a woman's health might be at risk. And the justice said, well, the Idaho law allows treatment in all of those cases. Right? What's your problem?
[00:07:49] Missy-Martinez-Stone: What's the. Yeah. So why do we need to take this further? Right. Absolutely.
[00:07:53] John Gibson: And really, it's because, and really it came out in the discussion. It's because they want to play in the gray area so that they can use this as a back doorway of getting abortions everywhere. It's illegal.
[00:08:06] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yes. They want to set the precedent. They want to set the precedent that the federal government can come in to these states where abortion is severely restricted and change what their rules say. And when Roe versus Wade was overturned, I was listening to a lot of news, and, you know, a lot of people talked about this specific scenario. Cause there was a lot of confusion. There was a lot of genuine concern, which, you know, that makes sense. But a, I think it was a New York Times podcast had somebody on there that was, was advocating, you know, was a pro abortion advocate. And she said, you just have to find a doctor who's willing to call your situation life threatening. Like, she was very open about that. That was a strategy from the abortion industry to circumvent these rules. And so that's when we can get into, like, that's why enforcement is so important, because we are looking at these rules and going, how are they being enforced? So that is so cool. I'm jealous. I would love to sit and listen. I'm a Supreme Court nerd. I would just love to have that experience one day. And I am so glad that you got to be there for that historical moment. And I'm glad that the attorneys are feeling positive for 75%. Coming from attorneys, you know, they're not usually quick to count their chickens, whatever. Count their chickens before their eggs hatch, whatever the phrase is.
And so I would agree with them, I think, not only for the abortion part of it, but also for the side of the federal government. Stepping in in that level on states rights starts getting really dicey.
All right, now let's dive into the actual subject. That is all fascinating to me. I could talk about it forever. But let's dive into the subject for tonight, which is being bold, brave and innovative. Why pro life advocates must reshape their strategies in a post row America. And we wanted you specifically to speak on the subject because you are naturally an innovator. Like you have had success because of the way you approach business and strategies. So I want you to take us back. Tell us how you started your business and how the characteristics of being bold and being innovative helped your business grow.
[00:10:43] John Gibson: Absolutely. So one of the things most people don't know is that the video game development industry is one of the most challenging and difficult industries to compete in. It's very much like professional sports and it's constantly changing. You not only have to keep up with the change, but to succeed, you have to be ahead of the change and you have to be highly innovative and never complacent.
On the team that I founded, we got our start as mod developers, creators of freely developed or freely distributed amateur games that modify an existing commercial game to be something different, to create something that the normal market is not actually creating. After we did this, with little to no money, we bootstrapped ourselves into creating our own commercial games independent of other companies. This is called an independent or indie game company, and it's where most innovation comes from. If any of you play games, or you have kids that play games, you've probably heard to some of the games that have come out of this community, like Minecraft, PUBG, killing Floor, Counter Strike.
Minecraft was sold to Microsoft for more than Lucas sold the Star wars intellectual property at Disney. And this came out of this innovative, independent group of developers.
So as we started this company, I really carried that independence and innovative spirit into my role as a CEO.
I led on key innovations in the early two thousands. The traditional retail markets, brick and mortar stores, they weren't really friendly or open for independence. So I initiated contact with a company that had been distributing some of their own games digitally and asked if they would distribute our game.
And they agreed and signed a deal to be the first external game to release on this platform. That platform was called Steam, and within a few years, it cornered the entire pc games market. It had about 98% of the market share and now 14,000 games a year, or at least on that platform. And we were first. We were the first ones there.
In the late two thousands, we bought another amateur developed mod and took it commercial, and that game went on to be one of the top selling games of all time, selling 6 million copies. In that time, I led an initiative to incorporate user generated content into our games before many other companies were doing this, greatly increasing the sales of our games. These are just innovative ideas that we kept experimenting and guided the company early into virtual reality and published one of the top selling VR games, signed one of the first deals to release a game on the new Epic Games store, which is run by the developers of Fortnite.
Grew the company from a value in the millions of dollars in 2014 to a value of hundreds of millions of dollars by 2021.
[00:13:30] Missy-Martinez-Stone: That is wild.
[00:13:33] John Gibson: Thank you.
Yeah, it was an exciting ride. It was an exciting ride to come from nothing and build into this company with 125 employees and selling tens of millions of games all over the world and kind of trend setting in our industry.
But that innovation went beyond just what we created.
It was also inside the business. And one of the key goals for me was to make a company that was an amazing place to work, especially for women and employees with families, which I'll touch on more a little bit.
[00:14:03] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say, because we talk about like digital games now, like that's the norm. But this was what year again?
[00:14:11] John Gibson: This was 2005.
[00:14:13] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Right. So this was almost 20 years ago. Right. So this was before.
That was the usual. Right. This was, you go to a store, you pick the game off the shelf, you take it back and you put it in your gaming console. Right. Like it was a very different market that you were in. And what I hear is you saw opportunities where the gaming industry hadn't gone yet and really, you know, paved that way of everybody else was just going to release a game. You put it, you put it in the package.
[00:14:53] John Gibson: That's right.
[00:14:55] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Right. That is fascinating. I know, I know a lot of, I know some of your story, but I don't know it in this detail. So I'm learning this too, and this is fascinating to me. But as you mentioned, like, it was not only like, I love this part because it wasn't just leading a successful business and innovating in how you're getting these games distributed, but you were exemplifying those pro life views, because, again, 20 years ago, it was not the norm to be as forward thinking in how women are in the workplace and how families interact with the workplace. Like now, you know, these Fortune 500 companies are trying to build that into company culture. But 20 years ago, that was not the case. And even creating a work environment where women are empowered in a male dominated industry, that is like you say that. I just want to harp on, you say that now. It doesn't sound as innovative, but then when you put it in the context of 20 years ago, companies weren't doing this yet.
And that's where I see not only your innovation, but really your values being shown in the way you work.
[00:16:18] John Gibson: And while a lot of that may have changed in most of corporate America, in the entertainment world, it's still pretty bad for women and people with families. So that's still unique in that industry.
[00:16:29] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah. Yeah, that's fascinating. But then, okay, so you build this amazing company, you're innovating, you're getting into new places, you're ahead of the curve and distributing digitally, and then it all blows up. So what happens? How did you make international news?
[00:16:54] John Gibson: So, in September of 2021, I saw a lot of the other developers in my industry going ballistic over the Texas heartbeat law and the Supreme Court upholding the Texas heartbeat law. And so I wanted to make a tweet, just not to be a crusader, but just to show people that there were other people in the entertainment industry that had different viewpoints on this topic. So in September of 2021, I made a tweet on my personal Twitter account and said I was proud of the US Supreme Court for upholding the Texas Hartbeat law. And I said, as an entertainer, I don't usually get political, but in this case, I wanted to go on the record.
The tweet caused a firestorm and got over 12 million views. Was the top trending thing on Twitter. Just below us pulls out of Afghanistan. You can imagine.
My family and I faced violence and hate filled comments and private message, including a lot of death threats.
And the story was picked up by the media and was covered by most major news organizations throughout the western world, predominantly in a negative way. And when I say pretty much every new Georgia news organization in the western world covered the story.
And a crisis developed between myself and my business partners. And I was told that if I deleted the tweet and apologize, that I could stay on a CE. But I refused to delete the tweet or apologize because I believed in what I said, and I believed it was right. I believed that saving the lives of the unborn was something worth saying and not deleting.
This resulted in a situation where my business partners refused to work with me. We had to sell the company, and the attention from the mainstream press had many headlines portraying me as a woman hater for not supporting abortion.
This was particularly troubling for me, as it was a priority for me in making the company a great place to work and succeed for families and women, that had been a big priority for me. The games industry is very male dominated and particularly unfriendly toward women, with sexual harassment and discrimination being the norm. We had another studio in town.
Female employees would come work for us after they worked for them, because they would say, I got sexually harassed at work, and I went to HR and they just left.
This is the same company. I'll try to keep it pg 13. But part of their hiring practices was to take people to strip clubs during the interview and see if they can hang with the boys.
[00:19:26] Missy-Martinez-Stone: No. Like, absolutely not.
[00:19:29] John Gibson: That is the normal games industry scenario. So. But myself, you know, father of a single mother, two sisters, father of two daughters. I was determined to ensure this would be a great place for a woman to work and succeed. I wanted this to be a place when my daughters grew up that they would be able to work and be successful.
I had three c level executives that reported me to me, the CFO, CEO, and coo. Two out of the three were women that I personally recruited or promoted from within, not just because they were women, but because they had the right skills. But I was happy to have that diversity on my board.
And the first time we had a female employee that have a baby, she came to me and said, hey, our company's maternity leave sucks, and it's not enough. So I responded to her and said, okay, how about if we double it?
And she just looked shocked. She's like, that would be great. And that's what we did.
We even. You know, and I led on this. We even. When we moved offices, we built a room for nursing mothers so that they could pump, and there was a refrigerator in there, and it had privacy. We wanted this to be a place that, you know, the message wasn't, oh, you can't. You can't be an executive here because you're a woman. You can't be, you know, it's. No, it's like, please come work here. We want your skills, and we're gonna make sure that you have everything you need to be successful.
And I even, and this is more controversial even on all over the political spectrum, but I insisted that the female characters in our games were well represented and be characters that women gamers would want to play as not just characters that teenage boys wanted to look at.
[00:21:16] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah. Not the stereotypical scantily clad woman waving the flag. Right. Actual, empowered, strong women. Right.
[00:21:27] John Gibson: Yes, exactly. And so to have the press tell me, write about me, this guy doesn't care about women. No, I do care about women, and I proved it through my actions.
[00:21:39] Missy-Martinez-Stone: And what's crazy to me is that it wasn't like your partners had been your friends for decades at this point. Your actual views were not a surprise to anyone. Right. Everybody knew you were pro life. Everyone knew you ascribed to more conservative views. Like, it was not shocking at all to the people who knew you. It was just the publicity. So when they come to you and they say, we want you to delete the tweet and apologize, this was not the first time that they were hearing that you were against abortion, right?
[00:22:17] John Gibson: No, it was not. But I believe that there are certain moments in history that take boldness, that people just have to stand up with their voice and say, no, this is not right, or, this is right. And I felt like this was a pivotal moment in history, and I didn't want to be. You think about through history, whether it's standing up opposing slavery or standing up for civil rights, you know, those moments, you know, some people stand up, and it's hard. It is very hard. But I believe it's worth it.
[00:22:54] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah. I mean, I know you and I have talked a lot about this whole experience being extremely difficult for you, extremely taxing emotionally, physically. I mean, you're being bombarded. You're thinking about protecting your family, and you've really had to take time, understandably, to heal and really rebuild your life. And I don't want to take away from how difficult that was. But now, a few years later, you find yourself in this really amazing position to go full force into supporting and helping the causes that you care about. And one of those being the pro life cause and specifically the mission for center for client Safety. And I know that you are a very sought after person, and I know a lot of the big, influential pro life organizations were reaching out and wanting to get you involved after this, after you became a very public figure, they were like, this guy, we want him on the team.
And.
But instead, you picked this little fledgling startup you know, two years ago, whatever. Yeah, it was December of 21 to commit to. And I would just love to know, like, from, what was it about the center for client safety that made you decide this is where you want to invest your time and your resources?
[00:24:30] John Gibson: Yeah. Thank you for the question. You know, one of the first things that I thought, you know, after having to leave my company was, okay, well, when I'm ready, I'm actually freed up to be even more active for pro life than I would have been before. So that's kind of a blessing.
And post roe versus Wade being overturned, there was a feeling by many pro lifers like, yay, we've won. But in reality, rather than having one major fight to tackle in Washington, we now have fights in 50 states to tackle.
[00:25:00] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah.
[00:25:01] John Gibson: And since the fight went back to the states, and many of those states started immediately passing legislations restricting abortions, a new battle emerged.
I saw that most pro life organizations were focusing either on changing hearts and minds or on getting pro life legislation passed. Now, I'm not saying anything negative against that. Those are both great components of tackling this issue. Yet, for me, it soon became obvious that there was a large gap between the laws either already on the books or being newly passed, and the actual enforcement and accountability on the ground.
So I was really excited when I found the center for Client Safety, as it had some innovative spirit that I love, and it was tackling the gap between the laws and the enforcements head on.
It was also surprising to discover that CCS was the only organization of its kind.
It was a.
[00:25:54] Missy-Martinez-Stone: It's wild still, and it was a.
[00:25:58] John Gibson: Modest, modest size, but it was already making a large impact already with closing down multiple abortion facilities and preventing others from being open. You know, one of the phrases that I hear mentioned about CCFS often is they punch above their weight.
And so my hope in connecting with CCS was, was that I can provide some of my experience in innovation and growing. I grew a company from four people to 125 and then. And help CCS grow to be a pro life powerhouse that can get abortion facility closures in every state.
[00:26:32] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah, I mean, our team. Since our first conversation, our team has already doubled. I mean, from. From three or four to eight. You know, we're not at 125 yet, but, you know, that's a big jump for us. And, you know, you have already, I can attest, have already been life changing for us. And one of the main reasons we've been able to grow and help more, you know, pro life advocates investigate and shut down abortion facilities.
But a lot of it had to do with the conversations that we had about business structure and vision casting and strategic planning. I mean, you. You know me, I'm a. I'm a. I'm a details, I'm an integrator, I'm a builder. And those are all good things, but I struggle to do that big, to be, to think big, to dream big. And you really challenge us to do that and thinking outside the box and looking for those opportunities like you did with your company, like, they're not doing this yet, or we're not doing this yet. Let's fill that gap.
But not only that, you help us then develop the steps that we need to take to reach those goals. So you've been extremely helpful for me as a leader, but then also for the company to look at even our hiring practices, like, really implement a lot of that stuff. Um, and I think for nonprofits in general, but especially the pro life movement, if we are going to be successful, we have to implement a lot of the stuff that you've been talking about of how we run our companies, and, you know, kind of what you touched on after Roe versus Wade was overturned, I watched a lot of pro life organizations have to recalibrate. Right? Like, it completely changed the landscape of abortion. And the strategies that had previously worked no longer did. And whether that's because people are responding differently to the information they're getting, or we have mail order abortions on the rise. I mean, before Roe, things like constitutional amendments and the ballot initiatives, like, we had victories there post Roe. We do not. We have not had one. And so that was a very obvious recalibration that the pro life movement has had to do. And I know I watched sidewalk advocates for life. They had to completely reshape how they serve communities in states where elective abortion had become illegal, because there literally wasn't a sidewalk for people to stand on anymore to do the compassionate outreach to abortion minded women. And so their new tagline became, the sidewalk is everywhere.
And I thought that that was just incredible leadership and own vision on Laura Musica's part. But I'm also. I'm not, obviously not going to name names, but I am still seeing a lot of pro life organizations and advocates struggling to figure out these new strategies. Because, you know, we've been doing these things for 50 plus years, and now all of a sudden, they don't work.
Or we have to change, because the way people are feeling about abortion and getting abortions has just been turned completely on its head. So taking everything that we've talked about into consideration about being innovative, finding opportunities. Like, what do you say to someone who has to go back to the drawing board and re envision their pro life work in a poster? America?
[00:30:23] John Gibson: Yeah, that's an excellent question, missy. So not every situation requires an innovative solution.
Yet with the changing landscape of abortion in this country, we know that the pro life movement has to adapt to be successful.
And if a problem is addressed the same way it has been in the past, there's a high probability you'll get the same results as others.
So it's clear the situation needs innovative solutions.
And speaking broadly, when looking at creativity, I generally share two approaches to ensure innovation.
And that is, first, to address a problem from a different direction that has been addressed in the past.
Don't just jump to the known answer, but rather start with the end goal in mind and work toward the answer from a clean slate.
The other is, give yourself a unique challenge. Address a challenge that no one else has solved or addressed, really. I think CCS is doing both of these. And that's one of the things I love about it, is we're working with established pro life organizations that have been doing great work over the years, such as sidewalk counselors and pregnancy resource centers. And CCS is helping these organizations address the abortion problem from a different direction by providing them training and resources to collect the information necessary to shut down abortion facilities.
This is true partnerships and synergy.
And at the same time, CCS is taking on the all new challenge of bridging the gap between laws, enforcement and the accountability.
[00:31:57] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah, I think the past three years, four years, one of the things I hear all of the time, probably the thing we've heard the most from people when they find out about what we do, especially the pregnancy centers and the sidewalk advocates, is they say, we've never had a place to take this information. So when they are talking to their clients and she says something just absolutely horrific about the way she was treated at the abortion facility, or they're even standing on the sidewalk and they witness a woman in distress, you know, eating help, they always tell me, we've never had a place to take this in, or, thank God, we've needed this so badly. Those are the two. Those are the two lines. Every conference, every conference we go to, every training we do, we've never had a place to take this, and we've needed this so badly.
And because when we started, I made it very clear I was tapped on the shoulder by David B. Wright, the founder of 40 Days pro Life. So he had done his own.
He started the sidewalk, compassionate sidewalk prayerful movement. I mean, talk about an innovator.
David is a pro life innovator, and he was one of the people who identified this. So I was tapped on the shoulder to help build this out. But I said, I'm not interested in starting another pro life organization for the sake of starting it. If someone else is doing this, let's just partner. Let's do it. Like, I don't, I don't want to be redundant, but as we dug into it, we realized, oh, nobody's doing it this way. No one's addressing this problem this way. But I think one of the things that has, has made us grow. Not only did we start, you know, we incorporated January of 2020, which.
[00:33:47] John Gibson: Well, there's something going on at that time.
[00:33:49] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Wild timing. I mean, three months before the entire world shut down, right?
Not only have we grown every year, we've grown exponentially. But I think one of the really important qualities necessary to being innovative is humility.
Because if you're taking risks, not every single one is going to pay off.
And being able to admit when the strategy isn't working and pivot to what, you know, what you need to do. Cause when we started, we had a very different idea of what accountability looks like. We had a different name. We thought, what if we could be completely underground? What if nobody could know? We wanted to be this very covert organization. Cause we didn't wanna tip off the abortion industry about what we were doing.
And so we started that way. Cause we were like, we're gonna be super underground. Almost like the CIA quickly realizing that strategy doesn't work. And so you have to be able to go back to the drawing board, put your personal opinions aside, and objectively determine, did this work or not? And I remember when we were in, like, the throes of conversations about our name change, and I had a lot of opinions, a lot of. A lot of personal opinions on what I thought was the best idea. And you kept telling me, prove it. Show me with the data. Do a market testing with the different names. And that was like, a really informative part of our process. But as we have grown, as we have innovated, it has taken, because we were very much building the plane while we were flying it, which I know you understand, it was okay, we had an idea. But when you actually get your hands dirty and you start doing it, and you go, hmm, we need to make some adjustments, you know, like, having that humility to go, I'm not married to this idea. I'm just married to whatever the best solution is. Right.
And I think that that's been. When I see leaders approach it that way, I always see them be more successful.
[00:36:07] John Gibson: Definitely.
[00:36:07] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah. Anything else you want to add? Just about innovation in general.
[00:36:12] John Gibson: Yeah. Well, one, thanks for your kind words on my assistance. I feel like I only played a small part, but.
[00:36:20] Missy-Martinez-Stone: And we landed on a great name. We landed on a great name. So it's fine.
[00:36:23] John Gibson: I think the key takeaway there was just bring in some methodology that I used in games to help prove out the idea.
[00:36:29] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah.
[00:36:30] John Gibson: In games, we had a saying that nobody thinks their baby is ugly.
[00:36:34] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yes.
[00:36:35] John Gibson: That means everyone tends to think their own ideas are amazing. Yet not every idea is amazing. And in the gaming world, I had discovered and implemented some processes to objectively prove out ideas, like a name change to land on possible ideas that would be the most successful. And that's what we did.
[00:36:53] Missy-Martinez-Stone: Yeah, it's really.
It was really both. Like, you have to bring in, yes, our intuition and our gut and our experience. But then, yes, when we actually get to data and being able to prove it, that's what I love, is we have measurable results, so we can look at our strategy and go, is this working? Because now we can look and be like, two abortion facilities have permanently closed. Two have stopped from opening. Three abortionists were stopped from practicing. Two people were removed from their positions at agencies someplace, at some place.
We have measurable things that we can go back. And even in those cases, when we had those first and second closures, I met with Christine, our vice president of investigations, and I said, let's look at those cases.
What was the recipe there? Like, what components did we have in place that made that successful? And let's do that again.
And that's when we develop our training for the pro life. Advocates were like, oh, if they know what to report, then we get better information. We look back at our success, and we're like, okay, why did that work? Let's do that again.
And I'll say it looks very different than Reprotection that started in January of 2020.
And that's okay. That's okay. It doesn't mean that we gave up on our idea. It's just that we let the data and the results tell us what we needed to do.
Thank you all so, so much. Look at us getting done even five minutes early, before 09:00 here. Thank you all so much. Thank you for your time. John. Thank you so much. Thank you, Amy. Thanks for having me, Piper. We will send this out. So you guys can watch it again in case you missed parts or you want to share it with your friends. But you guys all have a great night, and thank you so much for being a partner to center for client safety. Thanks.
