[00:00:01] Hello, and welcome to the Centered podcast. I'm your host, Missy Martinez Stone. And today is a very special episode because last night was the first and possibly the only debate between presidential candidates Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. My husband and I watched it live, and it was definitely a spirited discussion. But I have a very unique experience watching the debate because I'm an expert on one of the subjects that they spent a significant amount of time discussing, which is abortion industry regulations. And I was able to see past the talking points and the noise because of my experience.
[00:00:46] And this is such an important issue for so many voters. I wanted to take my experience and help people understand what was really being said.
[00:00:58] I want to take time to examine the claims made by both sides and correct some misinformation. I want to cut through the noise and present just the facts so that I can help people be informed voters, this is not an endorsement of either side or a commentary on their overall debate performance. I just want to use my knowledge to help bring clarity to a very confusing subject. So let's get into it.
[00:01:32] The segment began with the moderator asking a question about Trump's stance on abortion.
[00:01:40] And former President Trump responds by focusing on two extremes that he claims the Democrats take a and that's abortion up to nine months, and if a baby is born alive during an abortion, they will not receive life saving care.
[00:01:59] And he pointed to the former governor of Virginia, he said West Virginia, but it was actually Virginia, who he said supported killing children if they were born alive during an abortion.
[00:02:14] And at the end of his response, Lindsey Davis, the moderator respond, responded as a way of fact checking and says, there's no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's. So what's the truth there? These seem to be very hyperbolic and extreme claims, but he's technically not wrong. It is actually legal to perform an abortion up to birth. Is it common? Absolutely not. Is it legal?
[00:02:47] Technically, yes.
[00:02:50] But what you're not going to find is a law that says here in this state, you can have an abortion up until the moment of birth. What he is referring to is the way abortion advocates have written their rules so that it gives space for these cases and then the abortionist can exploit them. So here's an example.
[00:03:14] The Illinois Reproductive Health Care act.
[00:03:17] It says if the health care professional determines that there is a fetal, that there is fetal viability, the health care professional may provide abortion care only if, in professional judgment of the healthcare professional, the abortion is necessary to protect the life or health of the patient.
[00:03:40] Now, simply reading that, it does not point blank say abortion is permissible up until the moment of birth, but it opens the door in the cases where a healthcare provider can determine that the health of the mother is at risk. Therefore, an abortion after viability is allowed, and there is no limit on that.
[00:04:11] And as I've addressed on one of my previous episodes, there is a huge debate on what is health of the mother versus what is life of the mother, because the term health can be so broadly defined that a medical practitioner can technically say whatever they want, and that opens the door for abortions after viability, which is the later term abortions, and can be up until nine months. So, in short, you can technically have an abortion up until nine months in the United States. Is it common? No. Are there extra hurdles you have to face in order to get them? Yes. But is it legal?
[00:04:59] Yes. Now, regarding his second claim about babies being born alive during abortions, what Trump is referring to is consistent pushback from Democrats and the abortion industry lobby to make life saving care required if a child is accidentally born alive during an abortion. For example, a Minnesota law that had been on the books since 1976 required reasonable medical personnel to use all reasonable measures consistent with good medical practice to preserve the life and health of a born alive infant. However, Governor Walts, Kamala Harris's vice presidential candidate, signed into law new legislation that took out the word of preserve and replace the previous wording with just to care for an infant who was born alive. You can see where people can point to that and say you are caring for them, but are you providing life saving measures? What is care? Again, it's the broadness of the terms that leave room for interpretation that can become problematic.
[00:06:20] But more notably, organizations like Planned Parenthood have openly opposed legislation on a federal and state level that would require medical care be given to babies born alive during an abortion. And that information is very easy to find. You can google YouTube videos of their lobbyist sitting in front of committees, in front of senators and representatives arguing against the born alive, any type of born alive protection.
[00:06:54] That is what Donald Trump is referring to now. As far as the quote from the former Virginia governor, this is a great example of everyone misunderstanding and misrepresenting the issue.
[00:07:13] Here is the actual quote from the Virginia former Virginia governor Ralph Northam, not West Virginia. Again, trying to defend late term abortion.
[00:07:24] He said the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if the mother and family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. Okay, here's the context he was specifically talking about. If the child has abnormalities that are not compatible with life and the mother delivers the child, that is not a third trimester abortion.
[00:07:58] My family has had personal experience with this. It's devastating in the deepest of ways.
[00:08:05] And in those moments, those parents have to make difficult decisions on whether or not to try to preserve their child's life, maybe by a few hours or a few days. For the former governor to conflate this with elective abortions or abortions in the later term is inaccurate.
[00:08:26] And then for Trump to use this quote as an example of Democrats opposing any born alive measures is also inaccurate. Finally, Lindsay Davis's fact check doesn't actually address what he's saying.
[00:08:41] Of course, there is not a state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born. But again, you will not find a law where it says that point blank.
[00:08:53] So again, technically what she said is true, but it's not addressing what Donald Trump was saying. The truth is that in states where later abortions are permissible, as discussed earlier in the case where a child is born alive, Democrats and the abortion industry have gone on record multiple times against any requirement that the child be given life saving care. Okay, now on to Vice President Kamala Harris.
[00:09:29] Kamala Harris claims that the abortion bans make no exception for rape and incest.
[00:09:38] Right now, 21 states have either a total ban or a limit based on how far along the pregnancy is on abortion. She is correct that seven of those states do not have that exception, but 14 do.
[00:09:56] All of them have a version of protecting the woman's life. Now, her second statement is actually the one that is problematic. She says pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to terminal, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the healthcare providers are afraid that they might go to jail. And she's bleeding out in a car in a parking lot. She didn't want that. Her husband didn't want that. A twelve or 13 year old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term, they don't want that.
[00:10:33] End quote. Let's start with the first. I've heard similar stories from abortion advocates regarding horrific miscarriage care. I myself have been the victim of terrible miscarriage care. It is so painful and traumatizing. And if this is true, the doctor who denied them care needs to have their license revoked. I had my doctor investigated by the state medical board for how she handled my miscarriage. But let me be very clear. A natural miscarriage is not the same as an elective abortion. And I cannot say that loud enough. A natural miscarriage is not an elective abortion. And the people who use these stories need to be educated properly.
[00:11:23] And I'll go even further and say, if you had a medical practitioner turn you away when you were miscarrying your child, call the center for client Safety and we will file a complaint against that doctor. It is unacceptable. Second, it is dangerous for a child to carry a pregnancy.
[00:11:43] Children who are victims of abuse fall into the exception of life of the mother.
[00:11:51] And again, if the medical practitioners involved are not advocating for the life of that child, they are bad doctors.
[00:12:02] They are bad doctors.
[00:12:05] This is a good example of how we need to lay the responsibility at the feet of the correct people.
[00:12:15] If these people are not getting care, they have bad doctors. And those doctors need to be properly educated, and they need to have their licenses investigated. If they are unwilling to help women who are miscarrying, or children ten to 13 who, it would be life threatening, it would be dangerous for them to carry a pregnancy to term. Now, the conversation around continued around how each candidate would handle a federal bandaid, and then the moderators moved on to the next subject. But here are just a few more things that I want to address.
[00:12:59] First, this entire conversation around abortion was focused on what accounts for less than 3% of total abortions. Does it make those cases less devastating and scary and terrible?
[00:13:18] No.
[00:13:20] But both sides relied on the extreme cases to paint the other one as the villain. If elective abortion was restricted to only the cases that Kamala brought up, then 97 of abortions would stop.
[00:13:37] But we know that that's not her stance, and it's not the stance of the democratic party.
[00:13:42] So she needs to not rely on extreme cases to justify her stance on elective abortion. Also, if we want to highlight the extremism of the abortion industry, we have so many examples of how they have advocated for positions that are out of touch with the majority of Americans.
[00:14:05] Trump needed to do his research to ensure he was using accurate information in general.
[00:14:10] My big takeaway is that politicians need to be better educated on abortion, on miscarriage, and on stillbirth, period.
[00:14:20] They need to be better educated.
[00:14:22] It was wildly apparent that they were not fully educated on the subject, and with it being such an important part of this election, their team needed to do better research. But that's when our responsibility comes in.
[00:14:41] We have to do our due diligence to wade through what is being said and look at the evidence.
[00:14:50] It's a lot of work, but we have to do the work to be informed voters and not just taking politicians word for it.
[00:14:59] I was able to point out the misinformation only because I'm an expert in the field, but do other experts feel the same way when they got to their subject? I'm genuinely curious to know, but it is on us to ensure that the information we are being given is accurate and finding sources that you can trust to wade through the noise, wade through the talking points, and get to the heart of the issue and get to the facts. I hope that was helpful. Thank you so much for joining me for this special episode on the presidential debate. We'll return to our usual content next week.
[00:15:43] In the meantime, if you want to hear more about our work at the center for Client Safety, you can go to centerforclientsafety.org dot. We actually just launched a brand new website that is amazing and has so much information about what we do. You can also follow us on
[email protected]. i'm also on socials at Missy Martinezstone. See you next time.
