Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Speaker A: This is Missy Martinez Stone, and you're listening to the centered podcast where we have unifying conversations on the divisive subject of abortion.
Hi, and welcome to the centered podcast. I'm your host, Missy Martinez Stone, and today we have a very, very special guest.
I dragged my husband into this.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Cheers.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: My team wanted the perspective of somebody who is married to a pro life leader. Has been our entire marriage, and he has.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: And I'm the husband that volunteered out of all the husbands.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Yes.
Well, your wife is the one with the podcast.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: No, the joke is of all your husbands.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Oh, sorry.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Oh, we don't talk about that. Sorry.
Of course, I'm her only husband.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I don't get a lot of his jokes.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: My sense of humor. Welcome.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: What was I saying? Oh, so they wanted the perspective of somebody who watched our organization literally from the beginning start and grow and become what it is today. So I asked my husband, Aaron Stone to join me. So what many people probably don't know is my husband is actually in a rock band. He is a semi famous musician and now owns his own video production company and is an incredible storyteller. So he's helped us a lot. All those beautiful videos that you've seen come out about our organization, ultraviolet Media, so you can plug that too.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Anybody needs a video made, ultravioletmedia us hit us up. Yeah, we do the best work at the best rate.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's true. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm a marginally successful artist.
I went to college and grad school, went to seminary and then started playing music. Well, I started playing music as a kid and was fortunate enough to sign a record deal out of grad school and spent most of my late twenties and a lot of my thirties touring. And we were fortunate enough to build a fan base that has supported us to keep doing it.
Not enough for it to be my only income or only living, but enough that I'm very, very thankful as an artist that I get to have that and do that.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Your band is called.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: My band is called my epic.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: You can listen to them wherever you get your music.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: We put out a new record, this just a few months ago with youth and no records, called Lorella.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: It's beautiful.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Thank you, baby.
And it wouldn't exist without your support either. It's true.
And then I started a video production business.
Five, six years ago. We moved here same time. We started our businesses at the same time, one nonprofit, one for profit.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: And it was right before the global pandemic and we had our first child yeah, during. So we did it the hardest way.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Well, we did it the way we did it. I wouldn't know. It's not. I can't compare it to anyone. It's just what we went through. Right. But it certainly. There were complications.
We both ran our offices out of the house. I sort of stumbled into it. I sort of discovered in my mid thirties that these gifts that I've been working with as a storyteller and as a leader of putting a team together and producing things lent itself to this industry. And so I have a business partner who's more of the.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: He's holding the camera.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah, he's the tech guy and he's equally brilliant. And we've been together now, I started the company with another friend, who's wonderful, but Ethan and I have been together for three years. The company's been growing in earnest and we have several nationwide clients. And so I get to make art with my band and I get to make videos and sometimes I get to make them for you, which is cool.
Then the biggest thing would be that I met you and that there's a we.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: So we've been together in November. We've been married for ten years, together for eleven.
When we met, you know, we were probably on like, I mean, I guess in the worlds that we ran in older, you know, so I was 24 and you were 30, and I was already working full time in the pro life movement. I was at students for Life of America. We were living outside of Washington, DC. I was commuting every day up into the DC area to work for students for life. And we were both. He was a worship and creative pastor at a large church in the area, and we both were just happily doing our thing.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: I don't think either one of us was like, was like terrified of being alone or like, you know, we weren't even really actively.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: I mean, I was like, you know, dating around a little bit. It wasn't anything yet.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: I had a lot of serious relationships that just weren't the right fit. And so I was kind of like, yeah, I mean, I'm open to it, but I'm pretty happy and pretty busy. I was making, still making, even back then, making the music with the band, and then I was leading this big creative team and leading worship. And so we telling the story. Story, yeah.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah, because it is a funny story.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: So I hired a guy to build a drum cage for me.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: Explain to people what the people don't know. What a drum cake.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Okay. When you go see a drummer, sometimes there's a cage around them, but it.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Had to look nice.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: It had to look. Yeah, I worked at a big church that was kind of had traditional and contemporary stuff going on, so it had to look really nice. And so I got recommended this carpenter. They're like, this guy's good, and he's a musician. And they didn't really tell me that he was also in ministry. So we met and hit it off immediately. And Randy and I became kind of fast friends. I mean, having toured around a lot, I've met lots of people from lots of different walks of life, and so. And he reminded me of a couple guys that I knew, so we just clicked. And then one day, his wife and their kids all came when he was working on it, and I met them and was just like throwing his kids around and stuff. And when they left, apparently his wife, his name is Caitlin, said to Randy.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Like, randy is my brother. Oh, sorry, I thought you were forgetting.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: One of us is a storyteller who's saving the information.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Sorry, no.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: And she told Randy, that's your sister, missy's husband. She knew it. She clocked it right away, like, first time she met me. And so then they started trying to.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Well, then she texted me.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: They tried to set us up, and.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: We were like, well, well, she texted me. And all I get from it, all I get from Caitlin and this. I don't know, people listening might know who Caitlin is. So, Caitlyn, she's a doll. If you know Pat Mahoney, you know, from old school pro life movement world, that is Caitlin's father. And he and his daughters, we would go up to DC. That was like my earliest activism.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: And you grew up with Caitlin?
[00:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I grew up with Caitlin and her sister Dylan. We would go up to DC as, like 1516 year old.
So we had known each other for years and years at this point.
And so she texted me and she said, you, hey, you need to meet this guy, Aaron Stone. And all I said back was, no.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Just didn't want to be set up.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: No.
Yeah, yeah. Because at that point, everybody was. You were dealing with the same thing.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: A lot of people were trying to. I mean, I worked at a big church, and I was the only pastor who was single, so they were always trying to. And they would always be like, I mean, it always be too much like I'm, you know.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. People had good intentions, but everybody saw, like, these young, successful, not successful. You know, people in our. Driven, driven. And they're like, oh, the next thing is that you need to meet somebody and we're both kind of like, yeah, we will when we can.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: I wasn't like, yeah. And so he dad said to me, you should come by sometime. We have lots of, like, you know, you're not married. We have lots of, like, amazing young women. And I was like, that's cool. I kind of like, love, like, kindly said passed. A and so then one day Randy calls me and he's like, oh, no. So then the story.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: So I had been traveling a lot because when I was at student traffic America, I was just on the road constantly. I mean, I was managing 20 regional coordinators and overseeing 1000 student groups. I was just always traveling. And I was living with my family at the time with my brother and my sister in law and the kids. And I hadn't seen them for a couple weeks because they were traveling. I was traveling, and we'd all finally gotten home, and I just missed, missed them so much and wanted time with because the kids were two and three and four, you know, they were young at that point. And so Caitlin said, hey, we're all going to this fall festival that this church puts on every year. We're going to take the kids. Do you want to come with us? And I went, oh, absolutely. You know, I haven't seen you guys. I'd love to spend time with my family and, you know, do something fun. So we put them all in their cute little costumes. And what you didn't know is this.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Was a huge event that my church was putting on for, like, tens of thousands of people where we took over the mall, right? And so I get a text from Randy saying, like, hey, we're coming to your church's event. And I was like, sweet. I was super busy, like, running a lot of stuff. He's like, what he wanted to check. I was like, oh, yeah, I'll come by and say hi. And so at one point, he's like, we're at the chick fil a in the food court. I was like, okay, I'll run over. So, like, I.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: And you were like, very busy. Like, this is like the biggest event they put on every year. And I.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: So I ran over and I started talking to Randy, and, you know, I'm a guy, I'm a single guy. Like, my eye clocks that there's, like, a really beautiful woman in my periphery. Like, I wasn't thinking actively about it. You just, your radar's on, you know? And then at some point, you know, I'm talking to him, and then Caitlin, the kids are like, oh, it's good. To see the kids again. He's like, oh, and this is my sister, missy. And I was like, oh, hey, good to meet you. And I was like, oh, that's the beautiful girl, this sister. Cool. And then we just kept talking, and.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Well, tell them what your real first thought was.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Well, I'll get there. So we finished talking, me and Randy. We didn't really talk. I just finished. I was like, good to meet you. Finished talking to Randy. And then as I went to leave, I was like, was it missy? And she was like, yeah. I was like, good to meet you. And she was like, good to meet you, too. Walked away. Neither of us thought anything of it. I did think in my head, oh, that girl's too gorgeous to, like, be substantial, like, which is very judgmental. I regret. It was like a, you know, she's.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Too pretty to have any substance.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I thought she was, like, too pretty, like, to be very deep and not that pretty people, you know, that shows trauma from my past. Cause that's not true, because, you know, I'm gorgeous, too, and I'm very deep. So then, like, we.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: So we start leaving, and caitlin starts badgering me. Like, so what did you think? What did you think? What did you think? And I was like, I said two words to you.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: This. Well, first you're like, think about what? Right?
[00:11:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I was like, what?
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Did you know that they were introducing you to me at that moment?
[00:11:16] Speaker A: No, no, no. I had no idea. So she's like, what did you think? What'd you think? And I was like, we said two words to each other. Like, she said, what do you think? He was cute. And I was like, hey, he's cute.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: What? Would you.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Would you go out with him? And I'm like, I mean, I guess, like, I don't think there's what we literally said.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: He kind of remembered my name. Yeah.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: What am I basing this off of? But they took that.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: So they called.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: I said, yeah, I mean, I guess so.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: So Randy called me and was like, hey, what are you. Do you. Are you into dating? And, like, are you open? Are you dating anyone right now? I was like, I'm not. He's like, would you take a recommendation? I was like, well, normally, no, but I've come to really respect you. So if there's someone you think that would really be a good fit, because at that point, he was getting to know me well enough to know, like, you know, I wasn't fitting in any real box easy. And he's like, start describing this girl to me. He's like, she loves the Lord and she's really talented and she's really committed to working for the voiceless and all this other stuff. And she's talented and she played music and she's just so kind. I'm like, this person sounds great. Like, who is this person? And he's like, my sister. And I'm like, what sister? Because in my head, I'm like, that can't be the hot one. Like, can't be the one that. Again, hotness is a personal thing I find very attractive. I was like, what sister? And he's like, I didn't know any of the sisters that he had. I didn't know Carrie yet. And I was like, he was like, missy. And I was like, oh. I was like, well, she's gorgeous. And I was like, you said beautiful?
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Because that's okay.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: I said she's beautiful. I said, oh, yeah. I mean, I wasn't like, oh. I was just like, yeah, she's beautiful. I was like, if she's, if she's everything you say and you're her big brother and you're calling me, telling me I should take her out, I was like, then, like, I'll take it under advisement. You know?
[00:12:58] Speaker A: And this is, this is big news because, listen, my brother has never in my entire life, at that point of my 24 years, ever liked anybody that I dated, ever approved of anybody that, like, he just shot every single person down. So the fact that he was initiating this.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And I felt that way. I have a little sister and I'm the oldest of three, just like Randy. And so I felt that. And I think at the time, I might have been like, I think I was still kind of corresponding with a girl that I met in California or something. Like there was something that was kind of in the air, but not really. We weren't dating or anything. It was just like a friendship thing. Maybe it would be something more. And so I was like, well, I'm going on a trip next week to California and I'll pray on it and if I, maybe I'll give her a call. Because he said, well, she said that you. He finished it was saying she thought you were attractive.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: And so basically what they did was they lied to both of us.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Well, they haven't lied to me yet because I come home from work that day. Cause I remember I'm commuting up into the DC area. I get home at like 08:00 every night and Kaylin's sitting on the couch and she just has this huge grin on her face. And I'm like, what? And she's like, Randy, Randy, tell her. Tell her, Randy.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Tell her.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: My brother's trying to, like, play it cool. And, yes, it is very randy. And he finally, all he says to me is, Aaron said, you were beautiful and asked for your number.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So they basically made us think that both of us asked about each other, when in reality, they completely coerced.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: They instigated, right. Because once we knew the other person was expressing interest, it changed because I was like, oh, well, I mean, if.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: You asked for my number, nice to be likes.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Well, but it's also. It feels less like a setup.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Because it's like, yeah, that's true.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: They asked about me, right? And so both of us were like, because he's thinking, oh, she asked about me. And I'm thinking, asked about me.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: They set up a good power dynamic where we both thought we were being wanted by the other person. So then I thought about it for a couple days, and I was in California. I was like, yeah, I mean, I'll.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Take his sister out.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: She's cool. Like, that's a big deal. So I call her, and I'm like, I'm thinking she's waiting on pins and needles for me to call her. Cause she's, like, hot for me. And I call her, I'm like, hey, this is Erin. And she's like, erin who?
And I go, Aaron Stone. Which is like, you know, my name's, like, my last name's kind of memorable. Like, you know, it's not like some weird whatever.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: I was on, like, a business call when you called me, and I had to call you back.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: And Susan, I say, aaron Stone, and there's nothing. And I go, we met at the mall the other day.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: And she's like, oh, yeah.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: And that immediately is like, I'm gonna have to work for it. Which is good. Like, which is good.
And then we went on our first date, and it was.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: You asked me out, and I was like, let's go get sushi. It's my favorite thing to eat.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Well, I don't think you said that. I think I said, how about. Because I. By then I learned that classy dames liked sushi. It was like a move, you know, I had a couple moves. We went to sushi, and we had a wonderful time.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Talked for, like, I mean, we were probably out for like, 3 hours.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, we are for a long time. You lived with your brother at the time, so that was. That was, you know, cool, too, to get to come back and see him. They didn't make it. I. In retrospect, she felt awkward, but Randy and I weren't that close. Like, we weren't. We were new friends, so.
And then within a year, we were married to, like, I proposed six months. I had this moment of clarity. She says, on our second date.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: I knew on the second date, which for me was a big deal, because I never felt that way about anybody before. Yeah. On our second date, I went, oh, this is what that feels like.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Thank God. And I didn't. It took me six months. She didn't tell me that. She didn't?
[00:16:31] Speaker A: No.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: And then I proposed on her birthday, and we got married November 15, 2014.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yes, November.
[00:16:39] Speaker B: It's always hard to get those 220, 1410 years. It's been wonderful.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: That's us. We have one Spitfire little girl named Marigold. She just turned four, and we both built our businesses. Yeah, we have a very happy marriage.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: We really do. We really do.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: Okay, so when we met, I was at student for life, and, you know, people had always said, tina, my dear friend Tina Whittington, who's still a swoon five. I've known her for 20 years.
She always told me, if you're in the field, like, don't marry another pro life activist. Like, get out, because you need that break. Like, you need that normalcy almost, you know? And so I really liked that he was not in the movement, but one of the things early on that I discovered about him was that he was very pro life and, you know, consistent to where, you know, we're talking about. We were talking about just war, and we were walking. I think it was on our second day, we walked around a bookstore, and I was, like, pointed at a book, and I said, so what's your stance on Israel? Like, we just dove headfirst into those hard discussions, and I always found his answers to be very thoughtful, to be very life affirming. And so even though he wasn't in the movement, I felt like he aligned on our values. But what was it like for you being introduced to this?
[00:18:20] Speaker B: It was a nice, sweet spot for both of us, because in the same way, you didn't know who my band was, which was good. That's true, because I couldn't really date like a fan. But you did know the genre, so you weren't like, what is any of this?
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Right?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: And I was really similar. Like, I'm like, well, I'm not going to marches and stuff, but I am pro life. And I had already. I'm almost seven years older, and I toured the country a lot, and so I'd had a lot of experiences. What was it like for me to begin to understand your pro life work? Was the question.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: You know, having grown up in a big evangelical church, like, I kind of understood the nuts and bolts of, like, the movement. I think that what I found interesting was, like, your personal, like, the level of responsibility that you already had, that you were, like, so young, and yet you were, like, the third in charge of students for life, and you were over these regional coordinators all over again. There's a sharpness to what you're doing.
And then, like, because I, since I went to college, and I went to a large evangelical college, which shall remain nameless, which was, you know, a good and a bad thing in a lot of ways.
It sort of. I sort of was out of that world until I'd been out of that world for a long time. And then I came back to serve at my home church, which felt like, for me, that felt like the rabbit trail. And so I was getting kind of reacquainted with this whole, like, very conservative leaning world and, like, understanding the movement again. So a lot of it was, like, understandable from what I'd grown up with. I grew up in a church that was, like, very poor, very political, and very proactive. So I kind of understand the boundaries of it, but it's interesting to start getting into it. And immediately I realized, like, oh, there's a lot of politics here. And, like, how all these groups, like, you know, understand the nonprofit side of it. Like, I'm just not. I wasn't a business minded person. So understanding. Like, oh, this is. They also have to keep the bills paid. And then, like, raising up leaders and training people, and then some of that stuff was like, oh, there's a lot of mentorship, discipleship going on. And so it was just, you know, lots of points of it was cool. I feel like, in the same way, I got to bring you into, like, the musical world and be like, you kind of know about this, but, like, here's how the sausage is made.
I just remember how hard you were working.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: You were working really, really, really hard. And for a company that, like, expected a lot and that produced a lot. And, you know, you were driving an old car and, you know, like, you, I. You had the same meant. I think we met with the same mentality. Like, no one owes me anything. I'm gonna work my butt off. And, I mean, and I really appreciated that.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. And we didn't like, we both, like, we both had really strong views about debt, too. I think that was the other thing. I was like, I'm never gonna meet someone who's as radical as I am about hating debt. And then I met Aaron, and he was like, I don't even ever want to buy a house.
And I was like, oh, well, I.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Didn'T think I could.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Which is why, without debt.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: But we bought a cash.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Like, I think the thing I'm dancing.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: That sounds a lot more impressive than it is. It was not a lot of money.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Yeah. We got a sweetheart deal in a low, mostly forgotten neighborhood. Yes.
I think the thing I'm dancing around, which I should just get into and you can cut it out if you want, is just like, I was already, like, nothing conservative about anything except this. I mean, traditional politics. I have lots of friends who are still wonderful, wonderfully close, family included, who are very conservative on a lot of issues. That is not a deal breaker for me. But I have been torn in the world and meeting lots of lovely people who were, you know, I'm just using this sniff test of, like, fruit. Like, what's the fruit of their life? What's the. And I met lots of people who had different. And that it. That had changed my views on lots of things.
I'm still. I was and still am technically pro life because I just am anti death and anti war in all ways.
And so that was interesting to me. You mean, I remember we had the conversation about voting.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: And at the time, do I go into this like. I mean, I think if I get.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: He votes now, I vote now.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: But I wasn't for a long time because I felt like I needed to engage politically instead of just voting as a way of like, oh, well, now I don't need to worry about society.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Well, so I asked him, because we started dating end of October, beginning of November, and it was, I don't think it wasn't a presidential election year, but it was 13. Yeah. But there were, like, local elections, might have been the gubernatorial race or something like that. And, you know, I.
My degree is in government, and so, you know, I went and voted that day, and he called me on the way home. I think it was to ask me on our second date, wasn't it, potentially. And I had said something like, oh, did you vote today? And there was this, like, long.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: I chuckled and then I paused, and.
[00:23:06] Speaker A: Then he shared, like, his. His conviction. And for me, it was less about, do you vote or do you not vote? It was more like he had a thoughtful answer. And there was a conviction behind it. It wasn't, it wasn't just like, oh, I don't do that. Because whatever it wasn't, it wasn't out of ignorance. And I was like, I can understand.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: I viewed it as a fasten is the best way to describe it. Like, I was fasting for a season from it because I didn't know what it. I didn't know what it meant, and I knew I needed to be engaged in the world and everything. And so. And I vote now. And I think I'd also like. So I think when we met, I had already spent, you know, you had. I liked when I met you that you'd already been across the world living in Australia for years by yourself, and. But I had all these experiences that kind of made me immune to othering, like, and so not immune to, like, things. Some things being black and white, some things being right and wrong. But to the idea of, like, oh, those people just believe that because they're stupid. Those people just believe that because they're evil. And, I mean, there's exceptions, but most of the time, it's like, no, there's that same.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Is this starting to sound familiar?
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Like, yeah, this is centered. Like, there's that quote, which has been misattributed so many times, I can't remember who it was. But, like, the tough thing about the world is everybody has their reasons. And so meeting you and being like, okay, I'm probably more liberal than what you were, or more progressive is the term I prefer.
And. But on this issue, like, yeah, it's.
I do think it's, like, much bigger. And so there was a lot of negotiating of, like, there wasn't.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: There wasn't negotiating. It was more of just.
There was an underlying trust and integrity on both ends where it was like, I could tell that, again, when you can tell when somebody is just spouting talking points or is being divisive and othering because they are not interested in engaging in productive conversation or if it's fear or whatever, you can tell when people's motivations are not healthy, but when you are able to have conversations and say, oh, I trust where this is coming from. This is what me and Allison talked about when we were talking about how we have such a good friendship and working relationship, even though we are polar opposites in so many ways, is because I could tell. And everybody that I talk to when I be like, oh, yeah, I just started dating Aaron Stone. Ten times out of ten, everyone would just immediately start talking about him and his band and how much integrity they had and how they're some of the best people. Some of those honest people. Like, they're like, these are some of the best guys you will ever meet. And in the music industry, that's rare. I mean, there's a lot of good guys, but that says something that you.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Have a. Thankfully, I haven't been successful enough. To.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: People who are just listening, you can't hear that. I just rolled my eyes.
But I think it came down to we both were people of integrity and. And open to conversation.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, I want to grade things on style and substance. Like, if you have good substance and style is not even the right word, but, like, if you have a good. If you have a good thing to say, but you're saying it, like, with. Without. With malice or with. You know, it's like, it's. Yeah, we all get angry things to be angry about, but it's like, oh, this is not. There's no. There's no goodwill here. Where's the conversation? And so being able to listen to somebody going, oh, I really like them, and I still disagree on this point, or I don't like them, but they're right, or I like, I like them. And so that makes me want to hear what they're saying. And also, I think they have ulterior motives, like, seeing through that stuff. And so, yeah, there was. It was initially, like, I had been out of this. Like, I lived in a. Basically, I ran a commune in inner city Charlotte for a while. I say that, but, like, yeah, it was. Communal living is a better way to say it. We were just, like, a bunch. When we weren't on tour, like, the first time I ever heard the term communal, I was like, no. I told a friend, I was like, dude, what if for college? Like, it was this original thought. What if a bunch of us who are still single just, like, went together and I. And, like, live somewhere that most people don't want to go, just love people, and just, like, not because we're the solution, not because we're the answer, but just because, like, that's where Jesus would go. That's where Jesus would be, and we could just, like, share all our stuff. My friends, like, oh, like, and live communally. I was like, no, we're not communists. We're just gonna, like, share all our stuff. And he was like, that's living. I mean, I just didn't. I didn't think I was creating anything original, but I didn't have any ideas of understanding it. And so I had been out of that world for a long time. And so I met you kind of not right after, but a year or two after I come back into, like, being in a world which was a beautiful, lovely people, but then also was pretty insular.
And. And I'd oftentimes be like, well, how could anyone think x? It's like, well, I have a great friend who thinks x, and I know how you think sex, and I spent a lot of time listening to you on x, and it's worth considering. Not everything. And so I don't know, like, another thought I have on this. I'm just kind of free flowing is like, like, our new record is quite a bit different than our first full length, which came out in 2008. And what should be like, we're different people. It's been 16 years. We've grown a lot. We've matured a lot. I'm not in my mid twenties anymore, but I'd like to think that the things that's the same is the integrity. Like, that record was staring at the toughest things in our lives and talking about them and being honest with who we were. And this new record is the same. And I think that's gonna be the thing we connected on, was, like, it is about integrity to the point of, like, we don't really let anything slide with each other.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: No.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Like, we don't, like, if we have an argument, we have to. Both of us are like, let's talk about this. We're both over communicating.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah, we don't really. I mean, we have intense conversations. We don't really fight, you know, yet.
We challenge each other.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's for. Yeah, we're.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: I think people are surprised. I think genuinely people are surprised that we don't have more confrontation in our marriage because we are both such strong personalities, you know, like, you know, everyone listening, like, you hear me in my professional world and even in my personal life, like, I've known for being pretty assertive.
And, you know, I'm gonna tell you what I think, and I have my strong opinions about stuff. And Aaron, he's a lot more.
His edges aren't as sharp, but you're still, like, you. Aaron walks into a room and is, like, very, like, has a very commanding presence and, you know, is also just a strong presence. But we don't.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: We're. Neither of us are shrinking violets.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: No, no, but we. But we can manage those.
I don't know. We manage that dynamic by just being very open and honest and I. And reasonable.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: Well, we questions each other's. We question each other's ideas, not each other's intentions.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: And because if we lost that, if we lost that feeling of, like, they mean well and they're trying, well, we would kind of lose the whole ball game, or we'd immediately have to go to couples counseling to be like, oh, I don't trust her on some basic level or trust him. And so we both have work, and when we feel personally challenged, we'll be like, whoa, I'm like, I'm talking about that idea. I'm not talking about the fact that you came to it honestly or even.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Even addressing, like, the times where we have had things trigger. I'm like, okay, I know you said this, and I know you don't. Don't mean it. Hey. It is triggering something that's deeper in me, which is why I'm having this reaction. Like, I need a minute to make sure that I deal with my trigger and not put that on you. Right. Being able to separate what is his responsibility, what is my responsibility, and what are our own internal. Well, things.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's a lot of reciprocation we both give each other. Like, you're very supportive of the things I want to do, and I'm very supportive of the things you want to do. And I've been thinking a lot about it because we just hit ten years. Like, we just check in every day. Like, every day. It's like. It's not like, oh, I'm still holding you to the vows you made ten years ago. It's like, no, we checked in, like, four times last week, and I'm. And we're hearing the progression. So we're, like, be able to go together.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And so all that to say, like, it's ten years. It has not been an easy ten years.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Now you want to talk about what it was like to watch you start? Build it? Yeah.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: I mean, we'll start. For starters, we moved here. I would say, the first, like, four years of our marriage, I dealt with severe chronic illness and a really high stress job, and so I took it. I had to take a year sabbatical just to focus on healing. I was in a lot of pain all the time. So that was its own hurdle. Just being sick. I was very, very sick all the time. I'm doing, I don't know, 10,000% better now.
And then in Christmas day on 2017, we had our first miscarriage, and that was a whole.
Just grief, on grief, on grief.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: And then I was the leader of the whole creative production, everything at a large church and balancing the band. So I was like. I was working crazy.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Yeah, he was working crazy hours. I was working crazy hours. And then was sick. And then.
And then things kind of. We had a big.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: We let. We didn't leave. Great.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: We did. Yeah, we had a whole situation with his job, and so when we moved here, we both had. We both did not have jobs.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: We moved here on faith, like, we knew. I mean, that's the picture I painted on our second date that you grabbed on. I was like, I'm gonna. I. You see me now, and I'm working at a large church, and I have a good salary. Like, that's not the plan. This is kind of like a. This is a rabbit trail of faith. I plan on living in the inner city again. I had done that in my late twenties, again, in a communal living situation. And I loved living in the inner city. And it wasn't a sacrifice for me to live in a neighborhood like we live in now. And so we painted that. So from the beginning, we kind of knew, like, this is, you know, this is where.
[00:33:24] Speaker A: But then when we were actually in that position, it wasn't like, it wasn't. Oh, we. We've set ourselves up so nicely that now we can move to this neighborhood.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: No, no. We literally had a date on the calendar that was like a month after we got here, where if one of us doesn't get a job by then, we're out of money.
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we had. So we moved to this neighborhood. We bought a house with this. All the savings, except we say we kept $5,000 in our bank account, spent the rest to buy this just dump of a house.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: 120 year old house.
[00:33:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it was livable to us. To us, it was livable. It was a roof over our heads. But it was rough. Like, all the windows were broken. The electrical was so questionable.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Like, we had all these switches where, like, we don't use that switch because it sparks. That's not a joke.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I just. I mean, a mess.
Nothing was up to code, but it was a roof over our heads. We had nothing. I mean, we had nothing. We had $5,000 in the bank and no jobs, and we just went. I knew I was supposed to do pro life work.
You knew you wanted to be. You wanted to do the video.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: I didn't know that yet. No. No. I knew I need. Wanted to change the equation where our life would be more about what we feel like we want and are supposed to do and less of what we have to do. And so I knew that if we could take care of our mortgage and just get that off the books, like, I mean, really, my thing was I wanted to live in a neighborhood that was underserved, that I just enjoyed being in a neighborhood. Like, it's not hard for me. Most people wouldn't, so why not go? And secondly, it would make my life as an artist. Like, I would just need a third of my money. We wouldn't need. And that would be a good trade off.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: But we came into this neighborhood thinking, like, oh, we're gonna serve them. And they ended up serving us because we are in.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Well, I have lots of strong thoughts about not thinking.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Well, yeah, but I'm saying. But I'm saying, like, we moved in intentionally, knowing that we wanted to be a part of a community.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. We want to be part of doing good. Beautiful truth.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: But they ended up serving us.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: So well and helping us rebuild. I mean, because we were pretty broken when we moved here.
[00:35:29] Speaker B: I think we're pretty worn out. And.
And so we started at the same time. Like, I kind of fell into video production because, again, well, her brother, actually, I volunteered to make some video content for your brother. I volunteered to make some content for her brother. And typically, like, he does, he's like, can it be a whole documentary? And I was like, well, I guess so. I've never made something that long. And so then we started, and I kept telling him, I'm like, as a storyteller, I'm telling you, this will be the number one thing that helps you raise money. He's a mission agency that helps you raise money. And as he was raising money that year, everyone was like, hey, I'll give, but I want to give towards the documentary because these high business owners understood the value of storytelling. So then he called me. He was like, hey, can we get that thing quicker? I was like, well, it's a. It's a pro bono project if you. But if you want to make it my job for a few months. And so that's how I started the company.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. I forgot about that. Yeah.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: So.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: So you were doing that. And then I was in conversations with David B. Wright about the beginning of what was. Then we hadn't even named it. We actually called it women's Health protection project.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: Super killer.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but that was, like, our working title.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: Why'd you ever change it?
[00:36:39] Speaker A: I know. Women's health protection project. That was our working name.
Yeah. Whpp.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: Oh, protection, right. Yeah.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So we. But we didn't know if we even had the funding for that. And so I'm, like, waiting on pins and needles, and it came down to the week of, if I don't get an answer that we are going to launch the testing of this project, I'm gonna have to go find another job.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Yeah, we didn't have a kid yet, and I think, too, it was like my whole life until I got married, I just would, like if I. If I saw something that was like, I always use that scene in the movie signs where the guys, like he said, didn't you hit the most home runs in the history of the state? And he's like, yeah. The other guy's like, you also had the most strikeouts. And his character says it just felt wrong not to swing.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: And so my whole life, I'm like, if there was something that seemed cool or valuable or worthy or, like, in line with what I wanted to do or what I felt like I should do, I swung for it. And then when we, missy got married, like, I still didn't worry because I'm like, she's so capable, too. We're both capable. And so we moved here, it just felt like, well, we have a moment to swing. And we knew a year ahead. Cause we both are planners. Like, a year ahead before moving. We ended up moving a month sooner. But so we got here, and it was like, we circled a date, and I was like, I don't know. I've been praying and fasting for, like, what I was gonna do. And meanwhile, I was sort of accidentally starting to do it. And then Missy was like, you took some job interviews?
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I talked to some people. I talked to the pregnancy centers in the area and some things. But when David beright was explaining to me what this project was about, like, they have figured out how to shut down these abortion facilities, and they were describing the type of person that they needed to take on this project. And they just had happened to pick Louisville, Kentucky, where we had just moved as, like, where they wanted to test it.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: I mean, it was like, that felt providential.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: It felt so providential because of all the places they needed a specific type of person which met me to a t. He was like, we need someone that's like, systems operation.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Well, he was like, missy was telling me, he said he needs this, this and this. I'm like, I go, I'm kind of joking because I know what she's going to say. I'm like, that's you. She's like, I know, I know.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: It's totally me. And then he's like, and we're doing it in Louisville. And I was like, david, I'm moving to Louisville. I mean, it was wild. And so we're sitting here, and I'm like, okay, like, is this project getting off the ground? Because I knew at that point, I was like, I'm not an activist, you know, and I had done six years at Sunshine for life, and it was great. But, like, I wanted to do. I wanted to use my government background. I love the policy, I love the strategy, the research, all that stuff. And that's what they needed. And so the week I remember, your family was in town visiting, and we were giving them the tour of Louisville. It was in December, and it was down to the week of, if they don't get the funding for this, then I have to go find another job. And David called me, and he was like, we're ready to go. We got it. And so that was December of 2018, and we started basically immediately. I just started researching, like, how do you set up a business? It was literally like, here are your email addresses. You know, just starting to do, like, basic organizational management.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah. You would go up to our guest room, which was upstairs, and that was your. And then I was in the front room with my. With my filmmaking partner, learning how to edit a full length film, which I'd never done. So we're both just, like, getting up, and then I would pick up lots of side carpentry. And you had some side stuff you were doing, too.
[00:40:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I did some lobbying with Kentucky right to life stuff for.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: You. Did some personal assistant stuff, too.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's right.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: It was just like, whatever we need to do. Yeah.
And at the time, we weren't even sure, like, we believed in, that we could succeed at those things, but it was like, it felt right to take the swing.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think collectively, I don't know if it was the first year, the second year, we made, like, you know, $40,000.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: I mean, like, we were fine with that.
[00:40:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's fine. But it was like, we were in the. And true startup mode.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And both learning, but. So that was cool. I do feel like a lot of. When you ask me what it's like to watch you build it, I feel like, a lot of sympathy, because we're both like, what? Like, just two days ago, you said to me, and no one's told me that before.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:02] Speaker B: And I'm like, oh, I know that feeling so well. Of like, you don't even know a question to ask, but you you have the skill to get into something.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:08] Speaker B: So you're getting into it. I had this really revelatory moment last year when we were filming for, for your. For the pieces that we made for ccs. And if you hadn't seen, haven't seen the main piece we did. I don't know what it's called or where you keep it. It's on your main website.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: Innovative strategy, closing abortion business.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Probably on your main website.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: It is. It's on our mate. You go to center for clientsafety.org. it's.
It's the first thing you see.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: Well, and we were like, okay, we'll do a video for her. And we do. We do plenty of stuff for other nonprofits, so we sort of kind of knew we wanted and how to make it, kind of cut them out, make the budget work. But I see her work all the time. I mean, we both have home offices. She also has this office. I say, half the time you work at home, and we check in a lot and we tell each other everything. So I wasn't a surprise to see her working. But what was different was instead of coming in and checking or hearing while I'm walking to the closet or something, we just kind of sat in the room with the cameras on for a while, and we did some, like, slight documentary edge to the piece that we did. And that was, like, really revelatory to be, like, it was fun to watch you in your power in a different way and to watch, like, this thing you built actually work. Because most of the time I hear with people, she's on a video call or she's on a phone call. But it was cool to get to see her with her team and just that love. I mean, I know the level of care she has. I know how much she cares. You don't know how many times I've seen her cry. Am I allowed to say that? And not always. Not because someone's been mean to her, but because she's just working so hard. It's usually exhaustion and frustration more than it is sadness.
But to get to watch you from the corners of the room and work and just like, wow, this team is really sharp. Like, you've got some sharp. You've hired. Well, you know, I'd like to think you're a good picker.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: You have a great picker.
[00:42:58] Speaker B: I'm pointing at myself. I'd like to think we both are.
And so that was really fun to watch and to be able to just say to anybody who, like, who cares about the pro life issue. And who understands, like, that what CCS is doing is not, it is not a partisan thing. This is something that anybody could. And we have friends that are liberal who are pro choice, and we will explain this issue. And they're like, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing when they understand it, you know? And that is. So that's one thing that I wish more people understood. And then I'm like, listen, if you're someone who wants to give money to making a difference in this issue, very few people have innovative strategies. Most people, their business now, their nonprofit is 50% about finding ways to get more money. And so they have all kinds of mission creep and politics and stuff. You know, I'm not naming any names. We could, but, like, this is a group who actually has a real strategy that does something real that is different in them. It's not just the same old, give us your money so we can, like, you know, make marginal differences. This is a strategy that will continue to be applicable regardless of the political climate.
And then I'm like, if you want. If it matters to you to know, like, bang for the buck, like, I can't imagine anyone working harder or caring more. Like, especially considering how little of it you keep. Like, knowing how much you and your team pay yourselves.
And it takes one to know one. Like, because you're in building phases stuff. It's like, there's, like, the RoI on you guys is insane, you know, like, how hard you work, how much you care, how, you know, how translatable this is to most people, even if they're not. Like, even if they're not, you know, conservative or technically pro life. Like, they're all, they're all pro life in this way.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: You know, and so it was cool to get to watch that and to be able to just say to anyone listening, like, if you're thinking about giving your money, then I'll tell you, like, you couldn't give it anywhere better. Like, no one's gonna work harder. No one's gonna use it better. This is real. A lot of people talk a big game. They'll say what they want you to hear, so you give them money so they can keep the wheels moving. Maybe they have some good intention, but, like, these are people who are actually trying to shut down harmful abortionists, who are treating people awfully. These are people who actually care. Like, there is. I mean, you've done so much of this work, but about once or twice a year, you'll be like, today, I just read some of the worst stuff just horrifying. And it made me emotional again. And. Which is saying something because you're like.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess what's interesting is, like, a lot of our supporters and even, even our team, they don't see that side of it because I try to, I try to keep that, you know, in my, I try to keep that separate, but you see the impact that is.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: Yeah, well, if someone says, like, a horror movie scared Quentin Tarantino, you're like, wow, it must be bad. That guy's seen a lot of horror movies. Like, when, when you, when stuff makes you emotional, I'm like, man, how bad does it have to be? And then how sad is it that, like, almost nobody else is fighting for these people? And these are, we're talking about, you know, people, we're talking about women who have gone to have an abortion, who are so betrayed by that, by that version of the industry. And so it is just, it is, it breaks my brain sometimes that you guys are working so hard. It should. I just feel like once everybody figures out what you're doing and how good you are at it, like, it'll just, it'll be pouring it, and it will one day.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: But, but you, what's interesting is that because there's, there's nobody else on the team that has been here since the very, very beginning. So we've had. Yes, but, like, we've been, we've been around long enough to where we've, like, gone through one cycle of board members and, like, had some staff turnover. So, like, you're the only other one who has seen the. The evolution over time. Right? So, like, right.
[00:46:50] Speaker B: Well, I remember when you were doing all the jobs in our guest bedroom right now.
[00:46:54] Speaker A: Like, you were, you were even figuring out the idea.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:58] Speaker A: You know, of, like, how do we do this? I don't know. Like, right.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: How do we. And how do we do it right so that we build something that is kind of bulletproof because we're gonna be in a high bullet area. Like, we are. We're poking a big bear here. And so. And you. And Missy is like, she loves, she's a justice queen. She loves policy. She loves spread spreadsheets. Thank God. God love her because it's not my, my area of expertise, but, like, you want to do it all, right? You want to do. Do it all, like, fully above board. There's a lot of corners you could have cut. Thank God for some of you. Christine, man, she's incredible.
[00:47:35] Speaker A: Christine Smith, he's referring to our vice president investigations when he was making the video that he referred to, which, again, maybe we'll put it in the show notes so people can watch it.
[00:47:46] Speaker B: If you haven't watched it, there's nothing I can say better than that's true.
[00:47:50] Speaker A: But he spent some time in, his partner spent some time with Christine filming. And you said he came home and he goes, oh, my gosh, Christine is unreal.
Those are your words. She is unreal. And I was like, oh, I know. I know what I have with Christine.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: Well, and, I mean, oh, your whole team is. But, like. And I knew that. I knew that I liked her and I knew she was doing good work, but then spending time with her, like, she's as sharp as she is humble and kind and clear and just like that mixture that most people that are that smart are not that gracious. Most people that are that gracious are not like that, like, cunning. Like, you know, like, what is it going to take? And so, yeah, I've been impressed by the team you built and the work you've done. And, you know, we continue to, you know, it has been cool to be building these things together and learning so much in very different worlds. The same time, there's a lot of sympathy where, like, it's. I mean, tonight we're gonna feel it. It's Friday night. We'll both be. Everybody feels that. You know, I don't want to say like we're that special or anything, but, yeah, but, yeah, to be, to be learning two industries at the same time for you. You knew the industry. Yeah, but it's the job within the industry.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, too, like, I. I could not have done this without your support because for a long time, especially the past, like, two, since Goldie was born, really, like, I was working the more traditional full time job and he was growing his business. That gave him a little bit more flexibility, so he really stepped in as more of the, like, predominant kind of stay at home parent role. Right. And even now, like, he picks Goldie up at 330 from school every day.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: Yeah. If you're wondering how it works, it barely works, which is that I shoot once a month, and so I'm usually gone for a week. And those weeks you take a hit.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I do take a hit.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: You take a hit. And then most days, you take Goldie to school so I can start working earlier. And then I pick her up, and now I get her. I let her watch cartoons for 1 hour while I get another hour of working. But since I own my own company, I can be more creative with my hours, whereas you have to work a nine to five. So it kind of works that we're both working a full and halftime job at the same time.
[00:50:04] Speaker A: But I'm saying, like, you. You.
[00:50:06] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: That have stepped into.
[00:50:09] Speaker B: Well, the decision was like, you don't have. You don't have the flexibility, so I need to have the flexibility. And my big thing is that in the big picture, we're both supporting each other equally. Yeah, but as far as, like, flexibility goes, like, you don't have as much of it, you know?
[00:50:24] Speaker A: Yeah. I just remember so clearly, I was meeting with somebody, and it was the middle of a work day, and my daughter was, I think, two or three at that age, and she was going to a nursery school one to two days a week, and they were like, oh, you have a daughter. Where's your daughter? You must have family that lives in town. And I said, no, actually, we say, we do not have family that live in town that help with childcare.
Because he was like, oh, your parents live in town? I said, no. He said, oh, your husband's parents live in town? I said, no. And he said, well, who has your daughter? And I said, my husband. Like, my husband has my daughter because he is at home with her because he has the flexibility to do that, and he is making that sacrifice so that I can put what I need to into growing this company.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: When she was really little, we would just trade her. It was, like, 50 50. And then it became clear that as you started growing, you had to work more hours, whereas I was like, so the initial idea was like, oh, okay, I will be totally off the map for a week, a month, and then the other three weeks, I'm in pre and post production meetings, and I can work those around. And then since she's been one, we've had her in daycare one and a half. One and a half. And usually it was, like, four days a week.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: And then the beginning, it was two or three.
[00:51:44] Speaker B: Was it really? Yeah. Well, then we had a friend who would do a day.
Amy would do a day.
[00:51:48] Speaker A: That's right. Oh, man. And this was all during COVID I know.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: I've never not worked. At least. I've always worked at least four days week.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: This was all during COVID on top of that.
[00:51:56] Speaker B: And then, until recently, I would work kind of four over the fully full days, and then one day a week, I would keep her home from school. It's like, we don't really want her to be in school five days a week when she's this little.
But, yeah, it's just been. What do you need? Like, I'll be like, oh, I just got offered. I have to go to studio for a week with a band, and, like, okay, we'll figure it out. I mean, I think you're good at knowing what's too much.
[00:52:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: Because I will try to do everything.
And now I've learned that she's very wise about my breaking, that I do indeed have a breaking limit, and that I have to listen to you. And so, yeah, we just have very. Yours is very rigid, mine is very free, and we just kind of make it work. I don't think. Even as I look back, I'm like, how did it work?
And it just kind of. We just. That's a daily thing.
[00:52:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: You know, today you took her to school, and I'll pick her up.
[00:52:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:47] Speaker B: And sometimes we'll. And often both of us or even one of us will go, I got to do some more work. If we get Goldie down tonight, that's pretty normal.
[00:52:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: So.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
So, any final thoughts about being married to.
I don't quote unquote pro life leader. People say that.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: I mean, again, I don't know if you want to keep this in, but it's difficult because all the politics and stuff, like. Which is why I appreciate you creating this podcast of trying to have these conversations. And maybe this is the other I've been advocating for a long time, that you start to be like, you've. In the same way that I shield my fans sometimes. It was like, oh, they're not ready to hear me say this yet. And so I don't not put it in a song, but I'm very careful with how I put it in a song as opposed to, like, being callous about it. You are. You, for a long time, were, like, not being fully out there with who you were because you were like, well, they're not gonna like that. I think, at. Or they're not gonna like my nose ring or whatever.
[00:53:43] Speaker A: Right? That's true. That's true. I finally put my nose ring.
[00:53:46] Speaker B: I can't dye my. The first thing you did when you took that ear because you dyed your hair blue as, like, some way of, like, expressing your freedom.
[00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah, the freedom.
[00:53:55] Speaker B: I've been saying from the jump, if you're gonna go, when she started wbh or whatever the heck I was called, I was like, you need to start being just yourself, because, a. It's the only way you can keep going. It's gonna be tiring enough. You can't do all that work and be having to maintain a facade. That's too exhausting. And secondly, I think the bulk of people are more like you and more like, where we're like, all this stuff is incredibly nuanced. And there's incredible. There are evil people doing evil stuff. But for the most. Most people mean well and either don't know something or they're considering something, weighing it heavily. More heavily than me, because it's not my experience.
[00:54:32] Speaker A: They have their own. Yeah. They're being informed by their own experience. Experiences.
[00:54:35] Speaker B: Right. And so I was like, you just need to start being. You kind of need to come out of the closet with, like, who you are. And. And if it breaks it, it breaks it, but you can't be anybody else then. Then missy. And also, if there's things about you that aren't healthy and aren't true and are good, no one can push on them because they don't know about it.
[00:54:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:53] Speaker B: And so I've been excited to see you start, like, kind of putting yourself out there, which has made it easier. It was very difficult the first couple years when, like, I sort of had to closet some stuff, too. Like, we would have to check. You would have to check in with me. Like, can I tell them? What can we do?
[00:55:05] Speaker A: Can I tell people what I do?
[00:55:07] Speaker B: Yeah. You meet, like, a new friend of mine. She doesn't know from, like, tor. Can I tell them? And I'd be like, yeah. Well, first of all, you can tell anybody you want.
[00:55:14] Speaker A: Yeah. But I'm more. What I was asking, is this gonna cause conflict?
[00:55:17] Speaker B: Is this gonna safe? Which I appreciate.
And it was tough for me to be like, oh, do I have to go around these people and act like I, like, insert politician here?
[00:55:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: Who I find. I, you know, who I find to be not genuine. Not, not. I don't see good fruit in.
[00:55:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:55:35] Speaker B: And so that's been cool to see that start coming out, and that's made it easier because we've been able to be more honest with, and thus, we can grow more.
[00:55:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: You know, we can learn more. We can do better work. We can not have the intention of, like, keeping a business afloat and a facade afloat.
[00:55:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's called masking, and it's Austin.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: Thank you. This was very, I think. I think people are going to appreciate your perspective.
So the last thing that we normally do when we're talking to people is, like, what do you do for fun? Like, because normally I'm talking to people that are, like, engrossed you can talk about this together.
[00:56:12] Speaker B: You have a thing. We both.
[00:56:13] Speaker A: Well, that's what I was thinking.
I was like, since we're both, as.
[00:56:17] Speaker B: Usual, we're on the same page already.
[00:56:19] Speaker A: We telepathic.
[00:56:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank. Thank God we were on a date night. Was it your birthday? On mother's day.
[00:56:28] Speaker A: It was mother's day.
[00:56:29] Speaker B: And we went to the sushi place because it's still the move. And. And then next door, there was a.
[00:56:34] Speaker A: Game store, a board game store.
[00:56:36] Speaker B: Well, we didn't know what it was at first. You're like, it looks like game store. And I.
[00:56:39] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:56:39] Speaker B: We just. In the last few years, I've gotten back into playing video games as a way of missy helping me gear myself down and not always needing to accomplish 50 things a day.
And so we walked in, and it was board games. We're like, oh, cool. And you're like, we should just get a board game. And I was like, okay, I like board games more than you, I think, usually.
[00:56:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:57] Speaker B: And so I, like, got the guy. I explained it was like, we need a game where we're not competing with each other. It needs to be very chill. It needs to not be stressful. It needs to just be lovely.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:06] Speaker B: And what we want, I've been saying for a while, we need more hobbies together.
[00:57:12] Speaker A: We enjoy a lot of the same things, but, like. Like, my big things are, like, gardening and.
[00:57:17] Speaker B: Which I play a support role in.
[00:57:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, you have your music thing, where. Which I play a support role into, what are we doing together? Right.
[00:57:25] Speaker B: And I want to just, like, I don't always want the day to end. And, like, we. Neither of us cares that much about tv. We'll watch it. But, I mean, unless it's british bake.
[00:57:33] Speaker A: Off, then we're Monty dawn.
[00:57:34] Speaker B: Yeah. We're really into watching that right now. And so he recommended this game. It's called dwarf romantic. The romantic is spelled with a k. Yeah. Dorf is spelled with a dorf. Yeah. And it is kind of like playing with puzzles you love.
[00:57:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: It's kind of like playing a puzzle.
That's the vibe. It's really chill.
[00:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah. The puzzle plus chess.
[00:57:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're doing.
[00:57:59] Speaker A: And you're. And you're not competing. It's collaborative. So you do it together. So you're building.
[00:58:02] Speaker B: You can play with, like, ten people. It doesn't matter how many people you have. But.
[00:58:05] Speaker A: But it sat on our shelf for, like, a couple months.
[00:58:07] Speaker B: Did it really?
[00:58:08] Speaker A: Yeah, because I was like, I'm not ready. I can't like, I can't take on something. Like, I was anticipating that I wasn't going to enjoy it, so I kept being like, I'm not ready. And then one day I was like, let's try it.
[00:58:18] Speaker B: And it is. It is like, we can always play it while there's, like, a cooking show on or something. Like, it doesn't. But it's like one of us pulls a piece, and it's basically our building landscapes. And all the pieces have rules, like chess, where they can't all go together the same. And. And then as you play the other cool thing, it's like I always say, it's a chess meets a puzzle meets a video game.
As you play and you get certain scores, you unlock new pieces that make the game a more complicated, and b makes.
[00:58:42] Speaker A: It sounds so nerdy right now, makes.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: You able to score more points. And so I would say if we don't play twice a week, that's. That's better.
[00:58:51] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: We usually play three or four times a week, and sometimes we'll play twice a night because it only takes about 45 minutes. And we both have loved it. I think, for you, it's unlocked, this idea that maybe board games, you can. You actually do like them. If they're the right kind. If they're the right kind, which is when my thesis. But we hadn't found the right one yet. And so it's like, we're not competing. We're on the same team. We get to score high, and it's very chill. It's very peaceful, but it's the right amount of engagement at the end of the day. Like, I don't just want to watch tv. Maybe I don't have it in me to do.
[00:59:19] Speaker A: And it's something we're doing together because we're just sitting on the couch and staring at the tv. It's just not. Doesn't feel as.
[00:59:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Our big goal for a long time was to get 400 points, which we had looked online and saw. That's really hard to do. And so then we were on our 10th anniversary trip. We went to Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, Canada, and it was the Olympics. And so I was like, babe, we were so close. We had scored, like, 380 or something. I was like, this is our.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: I think we had gotten 398. We'd gotten 398. And it would just, like, crushed our soul.
[00:59:47] Speaker B: Yeah. We were like. So I was like, babe, we're on vacation and the Olympics are on. It's time for us to bring our best. And so we played every night. And the last. Last night we scored like 420.
[00:59:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
[01:00:00] Speaker B: We blew it out of the water. We destroyed it. And so that's been a wonderful three cheers for maybe just a lot to be said about just enjoying your partner. This is one of the biggest ways you have a good, you know, like I joked with you, we were in Canada and I hear a lot of music because it's part of my job. And like 90% of all songs are about how either I wish I had somebody or I'm glad I have somebody. I'm like, 90% of the world just wishes they had somebody who wants to walk around and say at the same time, isn't that cool? And has someone else go, yeah, that is cool. And so this is something we both enjoyed. It's been lovely. So dwarf romantic high recommend.
[01:00:37] Speaker A: I do. I highly recommend it for board game players.
[01:00:41] Speaker B: Even if you're a neurodivergent, stressed out. I don't have anything left in the tank. Please don't ask anything.
[01:00:49] Speaker A: Don't ask anything of me after 09:00.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: P.M. this is still a great fit.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
Agreed. Agreed. While watching gardening shows.
[01:00:57] Speaker B: Yes. While watching gardening or cooking.
[01:00:59] Speaker A: Or cooking shows. Yeah.
[01:01:00] Speaker B: Well, I'm very proud of her. Thank you all for supporting.
[01:01:03] Speaker A: I love you very much.
[01:01:04] Speaker B: Love you.
[01:01:05] Speaker A: All right, well, this is probably gonna be a longer episode than usual, but that's okay. I think people will like it. But if you want to find out more about the center for client Safety, you can go to center for Client Safety.
Like Aaron said on the homepage is an amazing video that he made about us and about our work that goes more in depth explaining our strategy and how we do what we do.
We're on socials and for client safety, and I'm on socials. Icy Martina stone. If you want a video made, a very well produced video that is nothing insanely expensive, you can look up ultraviolet media, us anything else or. And also go on Spotify or apple Music or wherever you get your music and look up my epic.
[01:01:55] Speaker B: Listen, our new record, L'Orealla.
[01:01:56] Speaker A: Listen to L'Orealla. I think think you've got the right fan base here. I think they're going to really like it. So thank you so much. We will see you next time.
