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Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, this is Missy. I just wanted to say before we get into this episode, that the content of this episode is graphic and does include stories of child abuse, specifically of asexual nature. And so I wanted to give you a heads up. If you have people around you that have sensitive ears or you yourself are not in a place where this type of content is something that you can listen to and be mentally healthy, then maybe you should skip out on this one.
But with that said, it is one of our most egregious cases, I think, that we have done to date and it's, I think, a very important thing to educate the public on. And with that said, the content of this podcast is for educational purposes only. Everything that we share was taken directly from primary sources that were obtained legally through open records and can be verified.
And so, you know, this is solely to educate the public on an incident that has occurred and how regulatory agencies have acted since then. Now, I do stop the recording at the point where Christine is about to launch into what we as an organization have done with this information.
But because that is sensitive information, it will only be going to our inner circle. And so if you are part of the inner circle or want to be part of the inner circle, you can go to our website and find out more. If you join, you can then be vetted and we can potentially share what we have done with this information and where we are in the process of helping hold this abortionist accountable and the entities that failed to protect women and children in the process of approving his medical license and ability to practice in the state that he's in.
So listen with care. This is for educational purposes only. And if you want to hear a more detailed description of what we have done since learning this information, become a member of our inner circle. Thanks.
This is Missy Martinez Stone and you're.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Listening to the Centered Podcast where we.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: Have unifying conversations on the divisive subject of abortion.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Hi, this is Missy Martinez Stone and you are listening to the Centered Podcast. Today we have a very special guest, our very own Christine Smith. She is our vice president of investigations. And we are actually going to really, I think for the first time go into detail about one of our cases. And if you've been around for a little while or you know anything about the center for Client Safety, you know that we are very close lipped about our cases, we don't typically talk publicly about them and that there's a number of reasons behind that, one being to protect the integrity of the case in general. You know, we don't wanna be sharing information that could put the potential success of the case at risk. It helps the authorities that we're working with be more likely to work with us if we have not publicly, you know, shamed them or thrown them under the bus. But also to protect the victims involved and the women who have been through these traumatic stories. So I do want to preface this conversation with the fact that it is out of the norm that we are sharing case information. But the reason we feel like this is appropriate in this case is the nature of the case, but also because it does not involve a woman who's had an abortion experience today.
Now, he does have victims, and those victims are. It's just a devastating situation.
But this is a case that is 20 plus 30 years old. And, you know, this information has already been out in the public. And so we are not breaking any information that has not already been publicly shared. And so I just want to preface all of that so it doesn't sound like we say, oh, we never talk about our cases, then all of a sudden we're talking about a case. So there is a reason that we are wanting to be public with this one now.
All that to say, Christine Smith is joining me because she's been the one that has been working this case, which we'll get into. It's probably one of our most chilling cases. It's the one that causes everybody's heads to turn. But before we dive into that, Christine, I don't know if everybody knows your story of how you ended up being on the team of center for Client Safety at the time, I guess was we started with reprotection.
Let's go back to when you first heard about our work and how you joined the team.
[00:06:04] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:06:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:06:04] Speaker C: Well, first of all, I'm super happy to be on another podcast episode and I will say it's fitting that I'm on a podcast with you because that's how I first heard about you, is you were on a podcast.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: That's right. Oh my gosh, I forgot about that.
[00:06:18] Speaker C: So, yeah, it was almost three and a half years ago at this point.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: It's crazy.
[00:06:26] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: That I first heard about, you know, when you guys were reprotection and you were on a podcast. I listened to you being interviewed and I was like, wow, I think I can help you. I think I have some skillset that would. That would help you. And so I emailed you and we talked and the rest is history. I started as a volunteer and was part time and then now I've been full Time for about two and a half years.
[00:06:48] Speaker D: Mm.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: Uh, so my background is in healthcare administration, specifically physician credentialing. So that's definitely helped me develop some research processes for vetting, intel and that sort of thing.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: So what's so interesting about this is when I was, you know, tapped on the shoulder to help, you know, create this strategy and start this organization, I was coming from more of just like, the pro life experience and like, administrative and processes and stuff like that. I did not know anything about the actual processes of healthcare administration. Like, this is all stuff that I have learned over the past five years. And so when you reached out to me and you were like, I do physician credentialing and I look up all the stuff, I was like, oh, my gosh, how perfect. Like, you knew more about the research and where to find the documentation that we needed for these investigations better than I did. Like, you've taught me so much. But it was so interesting because who would have thought that that very niche skill would end up serving such a powerful, you know, pro life strategy. Right. Like, when you, when you were credentialing physicians, like, did it ever occur to you, like, maybe I could use this skill for pro life work?
[00:08:20] Speaker C: No, it didn't. I actually really didn't get involved in the movement, in the pro life movement until after college. So I really was not thinking about that career wise. You know, when I was going to school for healthcare admin and thinking about what I'd want to do. And then I got involved sidewalk counseling and volunteering at pregnancy centers after college. And then, like I said, I was just super immersed in pro life news and media. That's how I heard about you. And then those pieces fell into place.
Yeah.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: And I would say, I think besides me, you're the person who's been on the team the longest, and you have really helped us systemize our processes and come up with, like, what these investigations look like, what we do, what we don't do.
You have standardized the process, I would say is probably a better way to say it. And you're always thinking really critically about how do we handle these cases with care, but how do we protect ourselves in the process? We have very careful that we're not doing anything that's illegal or questionable, like, you know, and you just have this amazing way of thinking strategically and problem solving.
And it has certain that on top of your healthcare administration background has just made you this amazing superhero. I remember after my husband, you know, spent some time with you when we were creating the video pieces last year, he came home and he just said he had, you know, talked to you. When we've been on meets, we've never been around you in person. And he just came home and goes, christine is unreal. And I was like, I know, like pro life movement, you do not understand. Like, she's behind the scenes, but she is just incredible. Center for Client Safety wouldn't be what it is without her.
So just so thankful for you and everything you've brought to this team. So let's get into this case. Now. Some of you might have heard it before, but back in.
Let's see, what did we first. When were you first contacted? This would have been.
[00:10:48] Speaker C: I first contacted about this general abortion facility and its many providers in the beginning of 2022, but it wasn't until 2023 that this specific piece of information about this specific abortionist was brought to my attention.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Okay, so take us back to that moment. You're contacted. What did you find out?
[00:11:14] Speaker C: Yes. So what happened was a community member who was involved at a pregnancy center across the street from this abortion facility said, you know, we, we think that the abortionist practicing here has been convicted of some serious crimes. And I will say too just, there's a little bit of a trigger warning here.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: What we're talking about, we are going to be talking about sexual abuse, specifically child sexual abuse. So I do just want to say that if that's something that someone feels they can listen to, this podcast is not, you know, would not be for them. But the community member who brought this to my attention said, we believe that the doctor practicing at our neighborhood abortion facility has been convicted of some serious crimes. And immediately I thought, oh, my goodness. Because, you know, a lot of crazy things are brought to my attention. Right. Not much surprises me anymore.
However, this, this did surprise me. I was like, if this is true, how insane that this physician is just allowed to practice in women's health, no less, seeing minors.
You know, we should all agree that that is very wrong.
So it was kind of shocking to read that. And I will admit I kind of thought I'd be able to disprove it. I kind of thought, you know what, there's no way this is the same doctor. There's just no way. But. And we'll get into the actual investigation process. We definitely proved that this is the same doctor practicing at this community member's local abortion facility, and he has been convicted of outrageous crimes involving the abuse of children.
[00:13:01] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: And so when we. When you started looking into this. So first it was because it was an abortionist. Right. So we're looking at, you know, when we say we shut down abortion facilities or dangerous abortion providers, that can actually look a lot of different ways. It's not, it's not always just physically closing the doors of a business. It could look like, you know, the license of the primary abortionist is suspended, therefore abortions can't be offered there. Or it's, it's holding abortionists accountable for other laws that they're breaking, therefore impacting their ability to provide abortion. Like, like, it's very, there's a very, there's a lot of options for what it means to, quote, unquote, shut down an abortion facility. And so what we were looking at was, okay, this is an abortionist, and this is an opportunity to not only hold him accountable for these horrific things, but also, you know, if his license is impacted, then that's going to impact his ability to provide abortions. And so it still fell within our mission, you know, even though it wasn't specific specifically about closing the doors of the, you know, brick and mortar. We're going, well, if his license, if his medical license can be impacted, then that will impact his ability to provide abortions, thus shutting down an abortionist.
[00:14:32] Speaker C: Of course.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Now, when did you realize that he was not only an abortionist, that his practice was bigger than that?
[00:14:46] Speaker C: Very quickly, actually. Yeah. So when you go to the abortion facility's website, they list out their providers and under his bio listed a plethora of places that he was practicing. Now, I don't take that as fact. I, you know, me and my team, we have a wonderful investigator that's also been just verifying information constantly about this case as well. So me and my team, we took that information and we verified on actual hospital websites official.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Sorry, MPIs.
[00:15:24] Speaker C: Yes, that's what I was just going to say. Official documents, like a national provider identifier number, which, you know, has very strict regulations with the information that you provide it. So if the provider says he's practicing somewhere, that should be legitimate. So on his npi, on the website of where he practices, on the hospital websites themselves, we discovered he had and has had this entire time. He's had a troubled past.
Admitting privileges at hospitals, staff positioned at hospitals, and a teaching position at a university.
[00:15:57] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:15:58] Speaker C: So all of that we discovered very quickly. It was super readily available in person.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: This is all open records.
[00:16:05] Speaker C: All open record, all provable, verifiable in multiple ways.
[00:16:10] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: So we find out he's an abortionist, he's also practicing at a Number of hospitals and he's teaching.
Then on top of that, he has board certifications.
[00:16:23] Speaker C: Yes, he has a board certification in obstetrics and gynecology. So he has his ob GYN board certification. But on top of that, he has a specific add on to that certification that is pediatric, an adolescent obstetrics and gynecology, which means he had to complete three years of clinical practice as well as various continuing education courses around children, with children, either operating on treating children, despite his convictions of crimes against children.
[00:17:04] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: So this is where the alarm bells really start. I mean, it was already concerning, but this is when the alarm bells just went haywire of, wait a minute, this system has failed.
[00:17:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: There's been a breakdown and we almost even assumed like, well, maybe the boards, like, don't know what happened or, you know, like. Because there is just absolutely no way. So let's go back.
As you're researching this, you're finding out where he's practicing all these board certifications. So we actually get all of the court documentation of his crimes. Again, if somebody is convicted of a crime, that is all open records. You can pull court transcripts, all of the official court logs and decisions, everything.
That is all open records. So we do an open records request because we're like, let's read.
How could this poss. Our first question was, well, why isn't he a registered sex offender? I think was really the question that was, well, if he was charged with child sex abuse, why is he not a registered sex offender?
[00:18:25] Speaker D: Right.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: And that's what led us down this wild path of just failure on failure on failure on failure. So talk about the case itself. And then when every. Everybody started failing, not only these victims.
[00:18:43] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: But every patient after that, by not properly holding this man accountable.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: Yes, certainly. So I will.
I'm going to start from the beginning of when he was first accused of crimes. And I do want to read exactly what he was originally charged with.
This abortionist, this medical provider at the time, you know, a medical doctor.
He was charged with five felony counts of lewdness with a child under the age of 14, one gross misdemeanor count of abuse, neglect or endangerment of a child, one misdemeanor count of disorderly conduct. And the excerpts from those charges are extremely graphic.
[00:19:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: What happens after that?
[00:19:34] Speaker C: So after those initial charges, and I do want to emphasize too, during all of this, during this alleged abuse, while he was being accused of these things, this entire process, he's allowed to continue managing an ob GYN practice. He's teaching At a university which could have minors, you know, you could have 17 year olds in those classes. He's teaching at a university, holding hospital privileges at multiple different hospitals in his area. So that is kind of the first big red flag we saw that he's just allowed to continue practicing as if nothing, nothing is going on.
And then a few years later, and this are quite lowered because of a plea agreement. He did something called the Alfred plea. And for some reason, you know, everyone.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: It'S a way of, it's, it's the legal, in layman's terms, it's the legal way to technically plead guilty.
But you're not saying, but you're not admitting that you're guilty.
Right. To get the plea deal of pleading guilty, but you're not actually admitting guilt. Right. So that is the plea that he enters.
[00:20:54] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:20:56] Speaker C: And it's on its face a bit disturbing that that is something that can happen for the nature of these, these crimes.
And so what ended up happening is his actual convictions are two gross misdemeanor counts of child abuse and neglect.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: But the actual charges have taken the sexual aspect out of it.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: Yes, that is true.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: And so he's fled down to two gross misdemeanors. Now it's important to say he is still charged with child abuse.
[00:21:32] Speaker D: Right.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: And neglect and neglect. Like those are still technically on his record at this point?
[00:21:41] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: However, I, man, I the words I want to have with the district attorney who let him do this.
[00:21:48] Speaker D: Right.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: What this did, because this answered our question. Because we said if he was charged with child sex abuse, why is he not a registered sex offender?
[00:22:00] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:22:01] Speaker C: We had no record of that. We asked the correct, different, you know, law enforcement agencies in the state, why isn't he on the sex offender registry? We can't find him.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: But then we found an actual court document from this district attorney, from this, this, the people that were prosecuting him that said he did not have to register as a sex offender. Now why this was even on the table, I will never understand.
[00:22:40] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: And I feel like now this was the late 90s, but I feel like in today's standards that would never, never fly.
But because this district attorney allowed him to plead down, they went out of their way to also say, and you don't even have to register as a sex offender, even though there was evidence that he sexually abused a 10 year old and a 13 year old girl, she doesn't have to register as a sex offender.
[00:23:15] Speaker D: Right.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: He's charged, he's sentenced to.
[00:23:21] Speaker C: He'S sentenced to probation he ultimately only served three years probation and no jail time.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: And during all of this, never missed a beat in practicing medicine.
[00:23:41] Speaker D: Correct.
[00:23:42] Speaker C: And during his probation, he asked for special consideration to leave the state to do multiple times.
[00:23:49] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: To do continuing education, you know, courses for his medical license. And he was granted permission to do so and leave the state every time he asked during his probation.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: So he serves out his three years probation, and at that point, I'm pretty sure, again, I have to look back, like, his charges are pled down maybe one more time to just, like, disorderly conduct. I mean, the way that they just kept minimizing and minimizing and minimizing to the point where. Because when I was reading the charges, he should have served a minimum of at least one year in prison in five years probation, I think. And not only did he not serve any jail time, he only served three years probation, was allowed to leave the state numerous times, which we have the evidence of, like, every single time. He went to the court to say, hey, I know I'm on probation, but I needed to leave the state. And they were like, sure.
Multiple times. Specifically to attend conferences for his continuing medical education.
And we pulled his medical license. So. So after he is convicted of. After he is charged with sexual abuse, convicted of criminal child abuse, sentenced to probation with the state, he has to reapply for his medical license.
[00:25:13] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: What happens then?
[00:25:16] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:25:17] Speaker C: So he reapplies for this license, and he does answer yes on the application. There is a section on the medical license application that a defendant in a legal action involving professional liability malpractice or a professional liability claim paid in your behalf.
Oh, sorry.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Oh, wait. We didn't even get. We didn't even say that part.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: Well, that hasn't happened yet.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Wasn't the first. No, the first one did. The first one was. So pause.
Didn't even say at this point, he's had multiple medical malpractice lawsuits against him. The first one was. Let's see.
I'm pulling up our timeline. Where is it? Oh, the first one was before this. He was responsible for a child was.
[00:26:17] Speaker C: Born with brain damage because of misread sonograms. Yeah. And this medical malpractice lawsuit, it was this physician, as well as some other medical personnel and a facility ultimately totaling a $6 million settlement.
[00:26:34] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So he's had medical malpractice, a massive medical malpractice lawsuit against him, a criminal charge, criminal charges, sentencing to probation.
He reapplies for his medical license, and the state requires that you have to Disclose medical malpractice and any criminal investigation. I mean, not even just charges, but investigations, everything. So he says yes to both of those questions?
[00:27:08] Speaker C: Yes, he does, Mark. Yes, on his, on his application. And in 1999, the law did provide the state medical board authority to, you know, revoke or discipline on any level, a provider's license if they check. Yes to those questions. However, they failed to revoke his medical license and they did not enact any disciplinary action upon him at all whatsoever.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: Do we know? Because I know we've reached out to them, which we'll get into. But, like, do we know to what extent they actually look into what these cases are when they check? Yes. Like, do we know what the protocol is?
[00:27:50] Speaker C: That's interesting. I mean, they did claim, you know, that they saw the documents. I don't know if that is even true because this was from decades ago. And so now we're reaching out, getting these responses.
But, you know, I would venture to say that process for review when a physician marks yes. Is not as detailed as it needs to be, which is just a gap of accountability that we uncover all the time, actually.
[00:28:24] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: So.
And on this license, I noticed because you and Gavin put all this together and then I went through it myself and like, detail, detail, detail. Cause I wanted to see every time the system failed.
[00:28:39] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Not only is there no action from the medical board for either, you know, medical malpractice or criminal charges, you have to list if you have had your license, your admitting privileges revoked from hospitals, like, you have to tell them, yeah, I've had my admitting privileges revoked at these locations. And we know that he was practicing at multiple hospitals in the area. And there's no indication that even the hospitals revoked his admitting privileges. So we have a man who is charged with child sex abuse that is open records. You can see those.
Pleads down, gets charged officially with. But still with child abuse. Right.
Is sentenced to probation, discloses that information to the medical board. They do nothing.
[00:29:53] Speaker D: Right.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: And the hospitals do nothing.
[00:29:55] Speaker D: Correct.
[00:29:56] Speaker B: And he just keeps practicing.
[00:29:58] Speaker D: Right.
[00:29:58] Speaker C: There is no evidence anywhere that any discipline was taken by any entity that employed this person or licensed this person or credentialed this person in any way.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: And there are rules in the medical ethics codes of you have to be basically an upstanding citizen. You can't have criminal charges.
And I think we even pulled the. Because at this point, he's a, he's at least a board certified OB gyn because he doesn't have his.
His pediatric one specifically until later. But we Pulled the requirements for what do you have to be to have to be a board certified ob gyn. And what did that say?
[00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah, they outlined that you need to have, just as you said, good moral ethical standards and you cannot be convicted of a crime, a felony.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: He must be of good moral and ethical character. I'm reading this quote and attest that in the last 12 months there have been no misdemeanor or felony indictment plea or conviction.
Well, we know he absolutely had that.
And yet there's not a gap in his board certification because they have to list again their board certifications on their medical applications. And so we went through every single year to look for any disruptions or any, any times when these things were, were indicated that there was some lapse because of his conviction.
[00:31:39] Speaker C: None.
[00:31:40] Speaker D: No, none.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Also, he's had one major medical malpractice lawsuit and all of these criminal charges officially in his record. He's sentenced, he's. He's serving probation.
[00:31:51] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Nothing happens to his medical license. Nothing happens to the hospitals he's working at. Nothing happens to his bird certific certification.
[00:32:00] Speaker D: Nope.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Then 2002, he has another medical malpractice lawsuit, right?
[00:32:05] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:32:06] Speaker C: He has another one. Yep. And this one.
Hold on, I need to.
[00:32:15] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:32:15] Speaker C: So this medical malpractice lawsuit, a patient suffered second and third degree burns well.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: Under his care on her private areas.
[00:32:24] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: Absolutely devastating.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: And then this is when we start the timeline of every two years. Right. And so he discloses his criminal charges basically on the first one, I believe, after. And then after that he starts saying no. And there's questions around like, is it all time? But I think the, the application says, like, it's really only in the time frame that, that it's in the last two years, basically. And so.
[00:33:04] Speaker C: Right.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: My understanding is this argument is like, well, I didn't have any criminal charges since I applied, so therefore I can say no from now on.
[00:33:15] Speaker C: Exactly. Once his probation and everything ended and once these medical malpractice suits had been settled and we even had, you know, reached out to the medical board for clarification on this to say, is this really your policy? Is this what we're understanding?
And they were entirely unhelpful. They, you know, we'll get into how we reached out to all these entities. But yeah, essentially that appears to be the policy of those medical board license renewal applications that you can.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Into the 2000s, he's. Every two years, his hospital privileges never change, his board Certification never changes. 2007, a patient dies.
[00:33:56] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: He is a Patient dies.
[00:33:59] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: One of his patients dies. Yes. Resulting from perforation of the uterus.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: So during an abortion procedure, she dies.
[00:34:11] Speaker C: And then that was in 2007. And it wasn't until 2011 that the medical board was notified of the malpractice settlement.
And they have it listed here as negligent performance of pregnancy termination resulting in death. That's when they say patient suffered known complication, perforation of uterus. So once again, the medical board is notified of this and no action against his license is taken, no board review, nothing.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Now, and I understand that there are sometimes there are cases that people take to medical boards and they go, you know, like, I'm sorry this happened. There's not really anything we can do. Like, I've personally had a case like that.
However, again, let's even take out the aspect that he's an abortionist.
We have a medical practitioner with a board certified medical practitioner who has been charged with child sex abuse, you know, convicted of criminal child abuse, sentenced to probation, which already I'm like, is unreal that he didn't have served jail time.
[00:35:31] Speaker D: Right.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: He has.
He has been held responsible for the brain injury of an infant, second and third degree burns of a patient, and now the death of a patient.
[00:35:48] Speaker D: Mm.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: And his medical license, his board certification and his hospital privileges never even blink, right?
[00:35:59] Speaker D: No.
[00:36:00] Speaker C: Or the position he holds teaching at a teaching hospital, at a university.
Nothing.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: And then this is what really puts the just unbelievable, I don't know, bow on the story.
2018.
[00:36:20] Speaker C: What does he do in 2018? He receives his focused practice designation in pediatric gynecology.
And this is where I referenced, he must have completed at least three years of clinical practice focusing on pediatric gynecology in order to obtain this practice designation.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: Now, if you have seen the court documents like we have and you read the original charges.
[00:36:54] Speaker D: Right.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: It is clear that he was charged with sexual acts towards a 10 year old and a 13 year old.
And now not only is he a board certified OB gyn, he has a focused practice designation in pediatric gynecology.
[00:37:18] Speaker D: Correct.
[00:37:19] Speaker B: And did three years of clinical practice focusing on pediatric gynecology.
And what this tells me, because when I was going through this timeline, I wanted to see again all the ways the system failed us, failed his victims, failed every person who's been seen by him.
And it was started with a district attorney pleading down his charges, which should never have happened. Then it goes into his sentencing.
The fact that he only served probation is a failure. He should have served jail time.
Then it's the fact that his practice never faltered, that the medical board did not enforce their own codes and even consider reviewing or even putting his license on probation. Because we've seen that before when somebody, we have another abortionist that was convicted of. Of fraud.
And so the state said, well, while you're serving out your probation with the state, you're going to be on a probationary medical license. That makes sense. None of that.
So we failed with the D.A. we failed with the sentencing. We failed. The medical board has failed. The hospitals have failed because they don't revoke, because you can. He can have kept his license, but the hospital could have said, no, you can't. You can't work here.
You can't work here. So the hospitals have failed, then the board certification has failed because they have somebody who does not even meet their standard of not being convicted of a felony, a misdemeanor or a felony.
And even in that, it says it's a felony indictment, plea or conviction, they don't even have to be convicted. They're saying, you can't even be indicted.
[00:39:20] Speaker C: Right.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: So they don't do it.
And this sexual predator not only keeps practicing, keeps teaching, but then goes on to get a focused practice designation in pediatric gynecology.
[00:39:38] Speaker C: Correct.
It's unbelievable. It truly is unbelievable.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: The laws only matter if they are enforced.
And I look at cases like this and I go, this isn't even about abortion.
This isn't even about abortion.
This is a sexual predator who was allowed to stay in a position of power, in a position of power over women and now over children that he should have never been allowed to have.
And this system failed on every step. There are checks in place for a reason, and it failed the test every single time. So we discover all of this.
What happens next?
[00:40:35] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:40:35] Speaker C: So. And not only do we discover all of this, but I want to emphasize too, everything was verified by us. I mean, there was so many hours, you know, spent reading hundreds of pages.
[00:40:48] Speaker B: Of documentation, hundreds of pages of documentation.
[00:40:51] Speaker C: The submitting of the Freedom of Information act, you know, records, all of that we sift through so we can say for certainty, you know, what we're dealing with here. And so after we discover this, decipher this, do our due diligence there, we say, all right, it's time to reach out to all of these entities that, you know, you just mentioned failed.
[00:41:15] Speaker A: As I mentioned in the beginning, here is where we are going to stop the conversation with myself and Christine Smith.
We do go on to discuss in detail the agencies and entities that we contacted and their Response, et cetera, and are process of revealing their failures. If you would like to hear the rest of this episode, you can become an inner circle member where we can vet you if you are trustworthy with this information. And you can find out [email protected] Normally.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: What we like to end with is like, what do you like to do for fun? But it doesn't really feel like the right tone for this.
[00:42:10] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: So I was recently in D.C. with a group that we're looking to partner with and was in a room with some just very wise, thoughtful, just amazing leaders.
And the person facilitating the meeting asked a really interesting question. So I'll pose this one instead.
[00:42:36] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: He said, in the next 12 months. So we're so. Because it's coming out, you know, towards the end of the year, next year, in 2025.
What is the most important thing that you want to see happen in the pro life movement?
[00:42:54] Speaker C: Sure. I for sure, top of mind is definitely some unity within the pro life movement and in the sense of we need to stop operating from a place of pure emotion and operate from a place of fact and be confident in ourselves as we go forward in our mission. That facts, logic, all of that is on our side.
And we can be a lot better at communicating our beliefs, a lot better at having empathy for people who don't share our beliefs.
And I think we need to remember that as a movement, as a whole, everyone involved.
[00:43:41] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:42] Speaker B: That's funny that you say that, because I would say it shows our company culture, because that was basically my exact answer.
[00:43:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: When it got to me at this table, they were all, you know, they rightfully so. Just very concerned with the amount of misinformation that's out there right now, the way the abortion industry has leveraged misinformation, especially about abortion restrictions and the ballot measures and the abortion pillars. And I said, they're wanting more people to stand up, you know, speak out. And I went, yes. And while we combat this misinformation, we can't forget our empathy and compassion and that most of these people are not evil. Now, the caveat is like this man that we've been talking about for the past hour. There are evil people.
[00:44:42] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:44:43] Speaker B: But the average person that we're trying to reach is not evil. They're actually driven probably by good intentions. They're actually. They actually do care about women's health. And they're worried and they're scared.
[00:44:56] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:44:56] Speaker C: And they've been lied to. And, you know, that's. That deserves Attention that deserves compassion.
[00:45:05] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: And so taking more of a posture of humility and empathy. Even how I was thinking about how we approach these agencies, we go in going, I'm just going to assume that you don't know.
[00:45:19] Speaker C: Right.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: You know, and, and let me help you understand.
And then after that, depending on how they respond, then that's when, you know, we'll drop the hammer. Or not. Most people, they just don't know.
[00:45:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: Or they're the heart of what the reason of why they support abortion is not truly being addressed.
And I had the same answer. I'm like, I would love to see the pro league movement marry the.
Yes. The pushback of misinformation, but also start being a voice of compassion and empathy. Especially consider someone brought this up recently that works in the, you know, with women who have had abortion experiences she was so grieved by, especially since Roe was overturned.
The language of the pro life movement has, using how caustic a lot of it has gotten. And she's going, they're not considering at all all of these women who've had all these families who've had these abortion experiences.
And like you want to end abortion, then reach out to all those people who've had abortion experiences because it's what, one in four women? You know, it's crazy.
And she's like, reach, reach out to them with compassion.
[00:46:47] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:46:49] Speaker B: And I was like, that's good. That's, that's good.
[00:46:54] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: So, wow. Well, you're amazing. You're doing great work.
You know, like I said, we're going to keep on this case. We've got some thoughts which I don't want to share because, you know, we got to keep it a secret. But we are still working in this case. We're going to keep pushing for not only accountability for him, but for the agencies who failed in this process. And we will let you know when we have good news to share.
[00:47:26] Speaker C: Yes, of course.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: So thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of Centered.
If you want to also support our work while also, you know, drinking an amazing cup of coffee, check out our link in the, in our show notes for our seven weeks coffee partnership link. All the proceeds, 10% of the proceeds of, of any coffee bought from that link come directly to the work of shutting down dangerous abortion providers like him. You can find out more about our [email protected] and we're on socials at center for Client Safety. You can find me on socials issymartinez stone. And just remember, as you're closing out the year and you're thinking about giving and getting all of that, those tax credits, listen, this is the time of year everyone's trying to do the math. Did they give enough? Remember center for Client Safety, while you consider who you're going to give to as we close out this year. And now you can even donate stock. We've made it so easy. The market's up, you won't even notice that it's gone. So just go ahead and give it to us. We can use that to directly move efforts for closing down this particular provider permanently and other cases that we have. So thank you so much for joining.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Us and have a great day.
