Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Speaker A: This is Missy Martinez Stone, and you're listening to the Centered Podcast, where we have unifying conversations on the divisive subject of abortion.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to the Centered Podcast. I'm your host, Missy Martina Stone, and today we have a very special guest. She is one of my dearest friends who I convinced to become the center for Client Safety's board chair. She's been a longtime national pro life leader, helping develop successful communications and marketing strategies at Alliance, Defending Freedom and Live Action. You've probably seen her on Fox News and many other media outlets. It's Alison Howard Cintafonte.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Aw, thanks, Missy.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Anything else you want to add to your impressive resume?
[00:01:26] Speaker B: I am super pregnant right now and so excited to have a baby at the end of the month. And no, I think I'm honored to be here. It's such a privilege. I always thought that you should have a podcast and you just have the most unique thoughts and you think out of the box. And I'm excited to be with you in that.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mentioned on the first episode that having the podcast was something the team had been asking me to do for, I don't know, over a year. So you're one of those people that were saying this should happen. And I was very reluctant about it, but finally figured out what we wanted this to look like. And so, yes, you can credit this idea with you. So I do. I do want to spend the bulk of our conversation talking about our, like, interesting work dynamic. Giving.
Given that we have differing opinions on so many things, because I think it's a perfect example of what the show is about, where we're putting people over politics and we're building bridges with people and finding ways to not only work together but be in relationship with people who are different than us. But let's, like, set the stage. We met 10. I mean, I guess it would have been 10 years ago when we were both working in Washington, D.C. for National Pro life organizations.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Yes. I remember many times, like, walking either down a street during a march, a parade, or a rally. And you're, like, to my right, and we're both, like, holding signs, like, in our branded T shirt or sweatshirt, and we're in full activist mode. Like, that's my first memories of you.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Yes. We were always on the hill at the Supreme Court, at Planned Parenthood, working for these bigger organizations, getting things done. And so, you know, I think I first met you, it was at aul. It was Americans United for Life. They were doing a seminar on, like, management and with John Yost I remember that.
Yeah, I think that was, like, our first. But that would have been 2013, which is just absolutely crazy. But I was at Student for Life of America, and you were at Concerned Women for America. And then you were at Alliance Defending Freedom.
And so we were always working alongside each other. But it was really, I would say, like, four years ago that our, like, deeper friendship really developed when we were both scheduled to speak at the National Pro Life Summit in the same, like, segment we were on a panel. You were pregnant with Hope, I think you had. You had that defund Planned Parenthood shirt on with this really cute white blazer in your pregnant belly. And Lauren Musica was in our segment, too, who has also become another very close friend of mine. And we were backstage prepping, and we started talking about my new organization because you were like, missy, what? What are you doing?
Which was RE Protection at the time, and your eyes just lit up. I remember you being so excited. So tell me, what drew you into what we were doing?
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so sweet that you remember what I was wearing. That's the sign of a good friend. Or. Kevin James is one of my favorite comedians, and he says, as a husband, you should always remember a little nugget, like what she was wearing or like, a little clip in her hair so that she knows you're paying attention.
You're a great friend. No, I just loved hearing at the summit something new and fresh, I think, for you and I. We spent a lot of our twenties working for national groups that are doing great work, but they're huge. And it's hard to get small ideas up and off because they've got programming and they've got it all planned out. So when I got to hear you talk about RE Protection at the time, which is now center for Client Safety, I just couldn't believe this didn't exist before. Like, to me, center for Client Safety should have started the year that Roe v. Wade was passed. And like, the pro life movement just said, okay, then we're going to come after every enforceable law we can. So I just got excited, both because of the organization and because I know you and your leadership style and the organization that you wanted to build that was life giving and healthy and productive.
I was just excited for you and excited to see what the group did. And then. And then, you know, to be asked to join you in this on the board is such a privilege. And I hope I've done an okay job, but it's been really fun, like, you know, both as women leaders and as Peers, but also who have, like, different views on different things to come together on the issue of abortion and say, this is the common ground that we can all stand on. And how do we build a healthy team, a healthy organization? How do we be. How are we effective in this?
Because in many ways, we're like a startup. We're, like, small, we're growing. We're only three or four years old. So it's been neat to, like, walk that out with you as we try and shut down bad abortionists and bad facilities.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I will to this day still hold to the idea that the smartest thing I ever did as a leader was getting you to join the board and then making you the board chair.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: I'll take it.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: So you have done a fantastic job because, I mean, we are working together almost daily, I would say, and I think we've developed a really healthy working team relationship. But, yeah, I remember in the very beginning, we immediately connected on so many values outside of just the pro life values. Right. Like. Like running a healthy organization, like you said, like taking care of our employees, Moving away from this toxic view that pro lifers or even the nonprofit sector in general, that you have to be overworked and underpaid. And it was not only was this idea really good of strategically investigating abortion facilities and partnering with the CYBOC advocates in the pregnancy centers. Like, yes, that idea was good, but the organization itself, we wanted to see flourish when it came to employee retention and salaries and making sure that we were building something that we could be really proud of.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, too, you know, you and I were always working on communications and strategy and second in line, and that's where we kind of like to be like, I want to help, I want to serve.
And so center for Client Safety being so behind the scenes, kind of like, I think I said it that day, too. Like, are you guys like the Navy Seals of the movement? I mean, how cool to be able to work behind the scenes, not go public and shut down an entire facility, pull an abortionist license. He never gets to end another life, and women are safer in that community. Like, it's just so neat to me that you could accomplish so much with such a small team and a big vision, you know?
So, yeah, I mean, I think this is the best thing in the pro life movement right now. That's why I've been talking about it. That's why I'm on your board. Like, that's what I want people to give to you and to us, because there's so much work that needs to be done. I mean, I just messaged you this morning with a pregnancy resource center director telling me what she's hearing from women coming in saying they're lying to me at the abortion clinic. They're saying I'm X far along. I'm actually this far along. And they're fudging the rules to be able to commit abortions, and it's illegal. And so the more we talk about it, I think the more people will get it and hear these stories and go, that's not okay. That's not a one off either. It's not a lone wolf situation. We are starting to connect the dots of just how corrupt the industry is.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I saw your text message and honestly my first thought was, yeah, of course they are like, duh. Of course they're like, mishandling these cases and falsifying medical records. Like, at this point, nothing surprises me.
But then I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, this is crazy. But I was like, duh. You know, like, of course they're doing that because, you know, I tell people, like, if these abortion facilities are talking, they're lying. They can't even do basic paperwork. And, you know, like, like our case in New York, it was over zoning and, you know, their permits with the city, they couldn't even fill that stuff out without being dishonest in, in what they were writing. So there is a huge, A huge need. But I think one of the other things that we really connected on is that there are measurable results. Like, it's not a, you know, when you say changing hearts and minds, like, that is a great goal and we want to do that, but how do you measure that? Like, that's such a hard thing to, like, know. And for me, I functioned much more better with concrete evidence of like, okay, we can look at these facilities like they're open and now they are closed. You know, this doctor was practicing, now he is not. So for me, it's much more practical and much more just easier to show that our strategy works. And for me, that that's just an easier place for me to be effective. You know, we need the people doing the conversations, like, you know, Josh Brom over equal rights, like, having those amazing connecting conversations. But I function more of like, oh, you need this done. This is a practical thing. This is tangible. This is measurable. We can see our results in the fact that these cities no longer have abortion facilities or these practitioners are no longer allowed to practice.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think something you went back to us meeting When I was at cwa, and I actually think the first time I realized how dangerous the abortion industry is for me was I was standing on the 12th floor of the CWA building at McPherson Square. It was late at night because I was 20 years old. And I think it's really fun to work till 9 o'clock at night and live off adrenaline and like a slice of pizza, you know, like, that still comes up. But I was committed to reading the full trial of the Kermit Gosnell case. And it was like a 271 page document. And I was like, I want to understand what happened. I don't know if I was writing on it or what.
And I read the DA report and you and I have pulled segments of this, but I just remember standing outside of Penny Nance's balcony in her office and looking at the White House and looking in the darkness of D.C. and thinking, how does this happen? Like, in the United States? And for those who don't know, Dr. Kermit Gosnell was an abortionist in Philadelphia, and he killed women and he killed children after they were born and left them in jars. And he was just cruel, corrupt, giving out drugs and, and doing all this unregulated. His. His facility was never inspected for like 15 years. And Tom Ridge said it was because it was an abortion clinic. We didn't go, we didn't inspect it. And the only reason we caught Kermit Gosnell is because of a drug bust. Like, it wasn't even an abortion law.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it was the DEA going in to investigate him for drug trafficking, which he was also doing that.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: And like, if we didn't do that, if the DA didn't do that, he could still be committing abortions to this day. And so if you'll remember, there was like a movie about it and Superman was. Was in it, Dean Cain. But I think in that moment I realized how corrupt the industry is. And I also felt like at a loss for what to do about it, because so often you and I would be at the Supreme Court or at Planned Parenthood or doing media and just telling people, and you expect people to do something like, what are you going to do now? And I think that that was something that the pro life movement kept putting on other people, like, hey, media reporter, shouldn't you go do something? Hey, person, Pro life are listening. Can you believe it? Aren't you mad? And we didn't really give them an outlet to say, support this work and we will do everything we can. This doesn't happen anywhere else.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: And then that's why my eyes lit up with center for Client Safety, because I was like, okay, now when we hear these reports, we've got something to do. Like, we've got someone to go to. They have a system, and it works. And, you know, these women's stories aren't lost. These are poor, vulnerable, exploited women. They don't have the time, ability, knowledge, understanding, to sit down and do what you do. And your team to, like, file a complaint with an official board of health or agency and to keep going, you know? Um, so I think that's what's most powerful, is that it was able to take some of my, like, rage. And any pro lifers rage when you hear what happens, right. And, like, the smallness you feel when you're like, dang, this is a huge issue and I can't do anything. Yeah, now we do. Now we can do something. That's what's encouraging to me.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Our. One of our team members was just out in Washington state meeting with the director of a pregnancy center. And she said, 10, like, 10 years ago, they discovered some stuff going on, and so they tried to file complaints. And she goes, we could not figure it out. She was like, it was so complicated. We did not. She goes, I wish that you guys had existed 10 years ago because we tried to do this and it was way too hard. And I was like, exactly, Exactly.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: I know when you're a little bookworm and you love this stuff, that's, like, one of the biggest differences about us is, like, you live for an Excel spreadsheet and a process, and I. My eyes glaze over at an Excel spreadsheet, and I'm like, screw the process. Let's go get a result. Like, so that's probably why we work well together and we yin and yang, but we are different, like, in many ways, and that's okay. I think it's, like, it's good, in fact, because I can't be me without you, and you can't be without someone like me.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Yes. But I think there's. Yeah, I think. I think one reason is that both of us are so. Are, like, okay. Acknowledging that what our strengths and weaknesses are. Right. And that doesn't say anything about my value. It doesn't say anything about your value. Like, the fact that you don't love Excel spreadsheets does not mean that you are a failure or that you're bad at whatever. Like, we can, like, separate those things and go, oh, I'm not good at that. You are great. You handle that, you know, like anything with, like, media and marketing. I'm always going to trust your opinion, your advice, you know, your direction, because I know that that's your area of expertise. And I'm fine not being an expert, an expert in those areas because I know what I'm good at. And I think there's something to be said of kind of like checking our egos at the door and being able to be in a professional relationship with each other by just knowing, oh, those aren't the things that I'm great at. I'm going to defer to you. And I would say when we had our annual board meeting back in January, I mean, we have heavy hitters on our board. Everybody in our, like, they are not shrinking violets. These are, you know, successful, smart, you know, capable people that have strong opinions. And we did not have one, like, moment of hostility or frustration because everybody would defer to the person who was the expert in those areas.
And even when there was disagreement, there was just so much humility in the room. And just knowing, like, I'm going to be. I can share my perspective, but if somebody else has more experience there, then, like, great, you take it. That's great.
And so I think that is one huge piece is like, you've been able to pull out of me to think bigger, to think the marketing, the communications, the, the, the story.
Whereas I go, what's the strategy? What's the process? You know, what's, what are, what are the policies? What are, you know, the, the. More on the ground detail. But you need both, you know, to be successful.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: So I would say, like, like professionally, I think that's why we're, we're successful. But there is a, like, personal relationship aspect to that.
And I think, like, the more we've connected, we've also figured out that we actually don't agree on a lot of things.
Like, I mean, it's probably no surprise to anybody. Like, I lean a little more left, more liberal in my views on politics and religion, where you lean more conservative.
And for a lot of people, like, that's an automatic point of contention in relationships, or people just avoid being around others who are not exactly like them, or they build their circles with only the people they approve of or they, they call. They create what you call an echo chamber where you're only surrounding yourself with the people who are saying what you agree with. And that has not, you know, been the case for us. Why do people have a hard time having relationships with people they disagree with?
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think it's been a really powerful, like, lesson for me in being reflective about the relationships that you have around you, because it is really easy to get in with only people that completely agree with you. And, I mean, I think I've even seen this, you know, professionally. But definitely since becoming a mom, it is so easy to just, like, meet someone and be like, do we line up on everything Cool? Then we'll be friends. If not, we probably won't be friends. And so why is that happening? Like, why in our society can we not just sit with each other and debate? When in reality, that's what we love to hear? Right? Like, the best performing podcasts right now are debates. It's Joe Rogan interviewing someone he completely disagrees with, you know, or Jordan Peterson, or, you know, it's sitting down and hearing both sides of things. That's not very often that you get to hear another side. So I still remember us driving around somewhere, and you were talking about, you know, something you were listening to, and I was like, I would never listen to that podcast. Like, I just. It was. I think it's like two liberal women.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Like, oh, it was started. It was meant to be a conservative woman and a liberal woman, and they're best friends, and they started a podcast, and their first book was called I think you're wrong, but I'm listening.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: I love that. Yeah, I love that. And I think a couple things. One, I know your heart, and I know who you are and what you want out of life. And I have been vulnerable with you, and you've been vulnerable with me. And I think that that changes things when we, you and I, or people in general, just go to their corners of the ring and yell at each other, nothing happens. And that's very much D.C. and that's like, where we grew up in our professional career. But I was listening to an attorney talk about how she wins cases, and she says, I win cases by really listening to the other side. And I hear what they're saying, and I hear what they want, and I figure out how I can move them closer to my conclusion.
I can't just come back at them saying that they're wrong. And I think that's a really cool way to think about the future of the pro life movement. Because right now in this, you know, Roe v. Wade's overturned. It's up to the states. These fights have continued at every level, state, national. And you've got pro life people saying, we want protection. At the moment of conception, we want to protect every Child from abortion.
And that's right.
And you have people on the left, on the pro abortion left saying, I hear you, but it is expensive and I am scared and I am alone and the world is a scary place and I can't afford health care and why don't we have maternity leave and why is daycare so expensive? And that's where they are.
And no one's actually trying to meet each other in the middle.
It's very rare to meet someone who's innovative about that. And you and I have a couple people in our lives who do that. But that's why I enjoy talking to you, because the more you're hearing your side and you share with me these things, it allows me to get more creative and say, I still hold these truths to be self evident. But how do I get people over here to move? And like, even for me, you know, I spoke at a pregnancy resource center and I challenged them to put their money where their mouth is. You know, people think pro lifers don't want to support women. We raised $295,000 at night for a pregnancy resource center. It's like you have to just say to people like, get it together and put your money where your mouth is. This is us taking care of women. So I think that that's part of it is listening to each other. Where can we meet in the middle and not necessarily compromise? Like for me, I'm never going to compromise on life, but I'm really open to innovative ways to save lives. That's what center for Client Safety is to me. We've even had conversations where people who are more pro choice and more pro abortion than us are like, oh, no, it's not okay to do that to a woman. It's not okay to give a woman a hysterectomy, like without her permission. It's not okay to, for her to hemorrhage and you not get her to the hospital.
That is so cool to be able to experience someone changing their mind and moving a little bit towards the center of the ring and us saying, I disagree with you, friend, you're pro abortion, but I will work with you now that you've seen the light of what is happening, you know.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Anton had a really interesting point when we were talking that he equated it to like incrementalism. Right. And I've only ever really thought about that in like the legislative.
The legislative, like environment. But he was like, it's almost like you have to. The way you were talking about the approach for the attorney is very much the same way. It's like, how do you get them to move a little bit here and then like, a little bit here and a little bit here? Like, it's. It's the. It's the. It's the little steps towards the middle, towards that compromise instead of asking somebody to make these huge leaps and not taking into consideration their life experience.
And I do want to. Want to hit on one thing you said, too.
I think you had it right with the root of our ability to do this, is that we know each other and we love each other, and there's trust there, um, because we know that the other person isn't evil. Right? Like, we know, you know, that my intentions are good and that I'm coming from a place of really genuinely trying to do the best thing and. And you're doing the same thing. Um, and there's, like, a genuine curiosity and a desire to understand. And I've really pushed back on. In conversations, even on media interviews that I've done where they want. The host wants to villainize every single person who is pro choice. And I went, hey, you know, keep. Keep the bad guys. The bad guys.
Most of the people that we are, that identify as pro choice are. Are coming from a place of fear, of, you know, concern about finances, about, like, there's a reason they think they're doing the right thing. Um, and we have to figure out how to not paint them all in this. I mean, but like I said, like, there are some people who are genuinely terrible, right? Like the abortionists and the people who run the facility. Yes, they are terrible, and I will not give them the benefit of the doubt. But the average person, I think, is genuinely just confused, or they. They are. Are misinformed, and they are trying to do the right thing. And I think we can have more productive conversations when there is a genuine desire to understand where somebody is coming from.
And I think one conversation that sticks out the most, just for example, with our experience.
We've talked about my complicated relationship with religious traditions because of the trauma that I've experienced in my life. And you asked me about it out of genuinely wanting to understand. And when I explained it to you, you were just like, oh, that makes sense. And you said, it's so interesting to hear that perspective. Like, it wasn't, oh, you're wrong, or like, I'm concerned. It was like, oh, that actually makes sense. That that's how you got there. And then you just kind of left it. And I was like, wow, thank you. Thank you. So much.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: So much.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: I mean, yeah.
I think I've learned in my own life there's time for healing and there's time where you just need to be heard and you don't need to be told what to do. You know what to do. You just need someone to receive it and say, that does make sense. Like, it does make sense that you're hurt. And I'm so glad you shared that with me.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's it.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: And then that's it.
I think that's so sweet of you to remember that conversation. I think I remember it, too, when you're talking about. Because I think when someone's willing to share with you their hardest part, you have to handle it with care. And, you know, in our environment, like, an unplanned pregnancy is going to be the hardest part. It's going to be really scary. And I remember going into meet with someone for a business meeting. I was going to speak at a prc, and there was a girl in the lobby, and I was visibly pregnant. She asked me, like, how far along I was, and I kind of asked her how far along she was. And she was, like, really nervous. And she was like, this really young girl, like, 17.
She was like, are you scared? I'm scared. And she was there for a PRC visit. And I was like, well, like, of course I'm scared. Like, of course it's the great unknown. You're about to have, like, a baby. Like, it's okay. How are you feeling? And I just. I created space for her to not feel less than. Like, I think that that's the goal of, like, these conversations, and not that there's a goal, but I was talking to her saying, why are you scared? Like, how you feel? I feel scared, too. And she started talking about her boyfriend, and he wasn't sure about keeping the baby. And I was just like, yeah. Like I said, do you like him? Like, do you want to stay with, like, just being a girl's girl, like, in that moment? And I remember I won't put the person on class, but one of the staffers came to, like, who I was meeting with that day came over, and she's, like, listening to our conversation, and she goes, but God's got you, and God's going to take care of you. And listen, Listen, girl, and don't be scared. The Lord says, do not fear. And she just overwhelmed, shut down.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: The conversation. And. And I'm really grateful for her trust in God, and I'm really grateful for her excitement to tell this girl about that, but, like, it wasn't the right moment and there wasn't that trust. Like you were just saying, like, the only reason you shared with me your stuff and I've shared with you my stuff is there's trust. And you build that and takes a second. And you don't want to just write, run in, say the thing that you think needs to be said and run out. And sadly, that's what media has become. Like, let me tell you my right thing. And I'm leaving. Every meeting we've been at in D.C. is like, well, this is how we feel. We're leaving versus can I actually get to know you as a person and meet you where you are and hear your fears and tell you that it's okay to be scared? And then at the end say, well, this is how I normally deal with fear, or, this is what I'm thinking through. Or, you know, like, you know, I've been reading about how God's got me. Or I've been reading about, you know, like, single motherhood and how you can do it, like, but I can't have a fruitful result until I know what you're walking through, who you are. So anyway, we've built that with each other and can be vulnerable and open, and I'm really grateful for that.
But there is a tendency, I think, as a person of faith, I've seen it and I don't like it. And it's to overwhelm or over spiritualize a scary moment. And yes, God can do anything. I think you would even say that. Like, there's things that God's done that's like, it's only God can do. But on a practical level, I'm a human being. And this girl's about to. She's freaking out about having a baby. And that's okay. Like, I'm not saying don't be scared. I'm saying it's all right. You're gonna. You're tough enough for this, you know, like, you'll figure it out. So, yeah, people.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Yeah, people just want their feelings acknowledged. Honestly, like, that's really what it comes down to. Because when I. So I was at student for life for a number of years, and I would go on campus and I would do like, displays with the purpose of sparking conversations about abortion. And there were multiple occasions where someone would come up to me very upset about a pro life display. And by the end of it, they would say, like, wow, you're the nicest pro lifer I'd ever met.
Which first of all, I was like, that is sad, but thank you. And I had one student tell me this was in upstate New York at SUNY Buffalo ub, University of Buffalo, which is known to be like, a very anti.
They had protests there. I mean, it was just a very, very rowdy campus, especially on the subject. And she came up to me very upset, like, fist in the air, just, like, screaming at me. And by the end of their conversation, she said, I don't agree with you on abortion, but I'm not going to go to Planned Parenthood anymore.
Because our display was specifically about how Planned Parenthood was corrupt and sells abortions and takes advantage of women. Now, that wasn't everyone, but I did see a real change in people's perspectives. When I would just step back, I would speak kindly, I would acknowledge that there was a reason they landed where they did on their views before offering my own perspective.
And I did it in a way that was just like, well, what about this?
Yeah, not, you're wrong. You should do this. But it was more of an offering. Like, would you consider this. Like, this happened a lot with the converse conversations around, like, sexual assault and. And rape and incest. I would just say, who. Who decide? Like, who decided that, like, a woman having an abortion after, you know, going through this tragic event? Like, who decided that was the best option?
Like, why did we come to that conclusion? And they would just kind of be like, oh, I haven't thought about it that way.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: You know, and. And when I approached it that way and, like, allowed them to just consider instead of become defensive, I just had a lot more success in just having, you know, successful conversations. And. And I do, you know, I'll do a caveat. Is like, I'm not saying that you have to have a relationship with everybody. And if someone's being disrespectful and refusing to engage with you in a respectful way or respect your boundaries despite your efforts to have thoughtful conversations, you don't have to engage with them.
This only works when there's a mutual respect, which is what I would say you and I have.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, I think as we continue on in the movement and as we all continue on in our work, to be open to people that have a different idea. Now, like you said, there are some people who are so out of line and so backwards, there's no reasoning. They don't want to come off their ring. Like, they don't want to leave where they are. But I think in conversations, as I've seen people don't know. They haven't thought about it. They just kind of need to hear like a little bit of, have you considered this? Or today someone, a mom friend was like, oh, what are you doing today? And I was like, I'm joining my friend's podcast. She's like, what podcast? Telling her what we're doing. And she goes, no way. I had no idea, like, the industry was like, that. That's so cool. I mean, just to build, really. I don't know how she feels about it, but she knows how I feel. And this could be common ground. So, like, finding that common ground, like even saying to someone, I can tell you care a lot about women, like, that affirms this pro abortion person who's like, you're not hearing me. You know, women are dying. And you're like, I can tell you care a lot about women. What women are you talking about that are dying, you know, and asking more questions. Like, now I'm like spiritualizing it. But I'm like, jesus did a good job at this. Like, ask more questions. Like, sometimes you just have to let them talk. So, like, I'm afraid women are gonna die if we don't have legalized abortion. Okay, I can tell you care a lot about women.
Tell me more about that fear of dying. Where is that? Where, where did you hear that? Where's that coming from? Maybe they're talking about an ectopic pregnancy that can't be treated. Well, I have any. I can. All right, like that. Let's talk about that. You can treat that. No, state law prohibits that. Oh, really?
[00:37:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: Well, what about, you know, the, the minor who might die? Okay, let's go there. Like, going to where they are, like, let me walk across my wrestling match, ring, whatever, and like sit with you and talk you through it, I think is going to be the future of the movement. You did that on college campus Campuses. I built out teams of people trying to do that too, at national groups. And now it's like my family, my friends, and like my mom group friends. So that's like my little work. But yeah, it's a beautiful thing to have friends that aren't where you are at and get to hear their perspectives. And I think it strengthens us.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I interact with this regularly in my life, you know, even outside of my work. When I explain to people what I do. I've had multiple people who are not pro life who would say they are pro choice, and they go, but I know you and I get what you do.
That makes sense. Like, what the abortion industry is doing is wrong, and we have great friendships. So I know you and I could talk about this forever. It's one of our. I would say, besides pro life stuff, it would be our other thing we get very passionate about. But I know we have to wrap it up, so. One more thing to cover.
We are doing a segment called off the Clock, and we want our guests to share what they spend their time doing when they're not being pro life superheroes or parents. So it can't be something.
It's got to be purely. What is your favorite hobby right now?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. It's so funny. I joked with you that, like, I don't feel like I have any hobbies anymore because I have two little toddlers and a baby on the way. My hobby is finding dark rooms to fall asleep in.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: That's a great hobby, sleeping.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: I feel like I could sleep in a median if there was, like, a competition. I could do that. No, I love to read. Like, I honestly love to work out. Like, it's not a chore for me. I want to do it. I just have to find time to do it.
And I can't wait to get back into, like, doing athletic things like snowboarding. And I'm always like, I've been either pregnant. I love snowboarding, but I've been pregnant for, like, the past three or four winters.
So that's, like, probably my secret fave thing to do.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: That's. You know what? I did not know that about you. My husband is a huge snowboarder. He loves it, too.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: I didn't know that. Yeah, I love the whole vibe. Like, if it wasn't D.C. girl, I think I'd be, like, a snowboard instructor.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: I want to learn. I want to. I told him, next time, he goes, I'll go with him. And I will. I will try.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Aaron will teach you. You can get mad at Aaron, and then I'll be like, the good.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: No, he says he will not. He said, I will pay somebody else to teach you. He was like, the spouse cannot be the teacher. It does not work. So he was like, we will take you out to the bunny. Whatever they're called the bunny hills. And he's.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: We're not very teachable by our husbands. I'm very teachable.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: But yes. Well, that was his exact point. He was like, I'm not going to put myself in that position. We're just going to end up angry at each other. He was like, for somebody else to teach you how to snowboard?
Yeah. Hey, let's, let's go to Massanutton or wherever you guys.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: What would you say is your hobby?
[00:40:49] Speaker A: Oh, I said gardening is my big one. And reading, obviously. But yeah, gardening is my. Especially right now, this, this season, all the flowers and the vegetables. And I love that if you came to my house, you would just see I have, I have plants everywhere.
Yeah. So I've been reading a lot, gardening, and then I've recently gotten into puzzles.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:41:15] Speaker A: Putting together puzzles.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Because your grandma era great. I'll have some tea.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: I love it because I had to. It forces me to sit down, but it still keeps my brain engaged. So, like, crossword puzzles and like, putting puzzles together is my other. But yes, I'm totally an 80 year old woman, you know, and that's fine.
[00:41:34] Speaker B: I'm like, I want to snowboard like I was 22 again.
You're like, yeah, give me a rocking chair and a crochet thing.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: Give me my crossword. I'll sit back at the cabin and I'll rock in the rocking chair next to the fire and work on my being different again.
All right, well, I know we need to wrap up. You need to get back to your beautiful family. So thank you, Alison, so much for joining me and for everything you've done to help grow and build the center for Client Safety. We absolutely would not be where we are if we didn't have you, so thank you so much.
Coming up, we're going to have our very own vice president of investigations, Christine Smith. She'll give us an inside look on what goes on in an investigation. And as a subscriber, you can add the link to the centered podcast to whatever app you listen to. I did misspeak last episode and say every Friday. It's actually every other Friday, but if you add it to your podcasting app, it will automatically download. Also, don't forget to buy your next bag of coffee through our partner link with seven weeks Coffee, which is linked in the show notes. For more information on the amazing work the center for Client Safety is doing, visit CenterForClientsafety.org or visit us on socials at center for Client Safety. You can also find me on socials. I Missy Martinez, Stone, Allison.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: Where can they find you on socials at Alison? Sentifonte? Mostly Instagram these days.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: Perfect. All right, see you next time.
